Power of Attorney - Part 1 - Hull on Estates and Succession Planning #182
Listen to: Power of Attorney - Part 1 - Hull on Estates and Succession Planning #182
This week on Hull on Estates and Succession Planning, Ian Hull and Suzana Popovic-Montag introduce their next mini-series which will discuss engaging with litigation regarding power of attorney.
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Power of Attorney – Part 1 - Hull on Estate and Succession Planning #182
Welcome to
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Hi and welcome to Hull on Estate and Succession Planning. You’re listening to episode 182 of our podcast on Thursday, October 1, 2009.
Ian Hull: Hi Suzana.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Hi there Ian. How are you today?
Ian Hull: I am well. And yourself?
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Good thank you.
Ian Hull: We are both extremely frustrated by the delay of launching our podcast because we had some outrageous technical problems.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Yes we have.
Ian Hull: Included our Mac frying on us and all sorts of things that nobody really cares about.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Except for us because we didn’t get our weekly posts up…
Ian Hull: No.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: and so we’re feeling a little bit of heat on that and we apologize to our listeners.
Ian Hull: Absolutely but that’s okay, we’re over it.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right, well one of us anyways.
Ian Hull: I’ve let go. Okay, so what we thought we’d try to do is work on a mini series, our next mini series. And our mini series is going to focus on what’s it like to get into and engage into litigation relating to Powers of Attorney. And we want to sort of what we’re trying to do hopefully is get into the listener’s mind what it’s like if you came to retain us. And what would you be involved with and what sort of issues would we drag you through and the Courts would drag you through. So we’re going to talk about Power of Attorney litigation but from a client perspective.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Right. And we’re also going to address the two different scenarios. One, when you actually have a piece of paper or document you take into your lawyer’s office and you say, here’s the Power of Attorney. And the other situation when you don’t have that document, but you have someone that is incapable that you want to start to somehow protect, either their person or their property.
Ian Hull: Perfect. So given the two scenarios, first thing we’re going to ask someone when they come in to see is we’re going to say, well welcome to our firm and let’s get some identification.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right.
Ian Hull: Because our new rules…
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Yes, that’s right, the Law Society of Upper Canada has required us to identify and to verify our clients and who they are and what authority they’ve come to us to retain us.
Ian Hull: And it’s interesting, I was involved with a file down in the US and I was at meetings. And we were at first client meetings and my client, and the first thing they asked for was identification.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Yeah.
Ian Hull: So it’s not uncommon with other professionals. So once we’ve identified who our client is, we can help delineate and determine who we’re acting for. And as you said secondarily though, is on what authority are they acting.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right.
Ian Hull: So one of the early questions we’re going to ask is, give us the paper, give us the documents. I don’t want to hear the whole story just yet. Give us the documents upon which we have to work from, from a legal standpoint.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Right. And we want the originals of those documents too. I know many times people will just carry a Power of Attorney that’s a copy with them, because that makes most sense. But certainly at some point in time during our retainer, we’ve got to see the original document.
Ian Hull: Absolutely. So the sooner you come with that, the better.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right.
Ian Hull: And we tell our clients all the time when we get the initial retainer process, the more you get organized before you come see us, the better.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right.
Ian Hull: And another little thing we like to do is get names and addresses and phone numbers and siblings’ names and get the family tree organized. Get the whole picture of whose involved, so when you come to see us, it saves time and energy on your part and saves time and money for you from your perspective.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right.
Ian Hull: So it’s a good thing for both sides.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Never get too old to do homework, I guess eh?
Ian Hull: That’s right. Do your homework. And then after that, let us help you through this process because we don’t expect you to know all of the questions that need to be asked and answered but we all can sort of work from that starting point. And sort of another component of an early retainer with us and any lawyer, and all of this is helpful…we just find it helpful with our practice but we know it works with other lawyers’ firms as well, is that if you can, put together a bit of a chronology of the events that we’re dealing with. Now whether you understand or know what might be more important or not, that’s not a big deal. That’s our job to sort of delineate that. But a chronology of the events is also very helpful.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s for sure.
Ian Hull: So we’ve got sort of before you get here, your homework is make sure you come with all the information, personal information on yourself. Secondly, make sure that you’ve got all the information about your family or the parties that are involved, whether it’s outside individuals, caregivers and the like. And then thirdly, some sort of…tell us the story, preferably in written form with a chronology of the events and some of the documents behind it.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s exactly right, Ian.
Ian Hull: Alright, so once we’ve got that, and that goes for all of our retainers in the sense of the background information we can get, what we like to do is move into really and find out what the story is about. And you know, we’re not going to obviously in the podcast version talk too much about the story because every story is different. But we can identify the type of fights that we run into in a Power of Attorney litigation scenario or that might be worthwhile just to sort of tell people so that they know what kind of help we can provide. Because if you’re coming to us to do a real estate transaction, you’ve got the wrong firm.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s for sure.
Ian Hull: Right? But if you’re coming to us to deal with a Power of Attorney fight, you’ve got the right firm and again it comes down to know who you’re going to go see. So a lot of the time that referral first of all will start from an allied professional or someone who knows an expert, a specialist. We are specialists.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right.
Ian Hull: And to the extent that you want a specialist, it’s always worthwhile to really engage the resources around you – the internet, friends, local lawyers, local advisors and so on – to determine where your lawyer might fit best in your problem.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right. And Ian, just to step back a little bit from that, I mean you were saying the Power of Attorney litigation. Many times we have clients come to us with a Power of Attorney document just for advice in terms of what they need to do as an attorney and when it is that that document suddenly becomes effective, so to speak, or what they’re obligations are. And so I think that’s somewhat of a precursor to a situation where it gets more heated but certainly one that we see quite frequently as well.
Ian Hull: For sure. The non-contentious work is something that we do give advice on from time to time, absolutely. And it’s always worthwhile just to sort of know what problems you’ve got yourself into when you accepted the job.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Oh yeah. And as a profession, I think we’re quite surprised at how often people, once there’s a death people will come to you with a Will and the executor will seek advice. You don’t see it quite as often from a Power of Attorney perspective and I think that it’s equally as important because there are certain obligations that arise just by virtue of the fact that you are named as that individual. The moment you start to act in that capacity, also some obligations arise and its always better to know what you’re up against earlier rather than later.
Ian Hull: And it’s so true. And we obviously are focused on this podcast, on all 182 of them, with looking to problems, seeing if we can stop them before they happen.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right.
Ian Hull: And it can be a really helpful tool to get to a lawyer, if not us, a lawyer, to determine what exposures you have or don’t have in that regard.
Alright, well what we’ll do in our next podcast is continue working on and we’re pretending that you’re the client, you’re sitting in the chair looking across the table from us and trying to identify some of the things you’re going to see and the kinds of efforts that we’re going to put onto the file and so forth. So thank you very much, Suzana.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: Thanks to you.
Ian Hull: And we look forward to our next podcast, barring any technical difficulties.
Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s right. Thanks very much everyone.
You have been listening to Hull on Estates and Succession Planning by Ian
Hull and Suzana Popovic-Montag. The podcast that you have been listening
to has been provided as an information service. It is a summary of current
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reminded to always speak with a legal professional regarding your specific circumstance.
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