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<title>funeral - Toronto Estate Law Blog</title>
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<copyright>Copyright 2011</copyright>
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<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:04:05 -0500</pubDate>
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<title>Help with Funeral Costs</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>At present, the City of Toronto can provide help with funeral costs to Toronto residents who do not have enough funds in their estate to fully cover funeral expenses.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">The program provides assistance for funeral services, burial services or cremation services.&nbsp;With respect to funeral services, the program can pay for the transfer of the body.&nbsp;If there is to be a burial, the program can pay for the purchase of a burial lot, or if the deceased owned a lot, can pay for the opening and closing of the grave. If there is to be a cremation, the program can pay for the cremation, and a standard urn, and the cost of scattering the remains in a cemetery.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">Eligibility is based on the financial situation of the deceased and his or her spouse at the time of death.&nbsp;A caseworker will be assigned, who assesses the assets, income, RRSPs and life insurance of the deceased.&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">If the deceased person was on Ontario Works, or ODSP, the funeral home can assist in obtaining benefits. (The Province of Ontario can also provides assistance to those on ODSP or Ontario Works.) If the deceased was not on Ontario Works or ODSP, the family or estate trustee should contact the City of Toronto&rsquo;s Employment and Social Services office.&nbsp;The Employment and Social Services office must be contacted, and must authorize services before a contract is signed with the funeral home or cemetery.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">For more information, see the City&rsquo;s website, <a href="http://www.toronto.ca/socialservices/funeral.htm"><font color="#800080">here</font></a>, or call 416.392.1666.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">Thanks for reading.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">Paul E. Trudelle - <em><a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/Lawyers/Paul-E-Trudelle.shtml">Click here for more information on Paul Trudelle</a></em>.&nbsp;</p>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 01:01:23 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

</item>
<item>
<title>Tips on Keeping Funeral Costs Reasonable</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>In a <a href="http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/02/articles/topics/litigation-1/administration-and-the-role-of-the-solicitor-and-the-role-of-the-estate-trustee/">prior blog </a>by Paul Trudelle, a partner at Hull &amp; Hull LLP, he explained the decision of <em>Rooney Estate v. Stewart Estate</em> (2007).&nbsp;In <i>Rooney Estate v. Stewart Estate</i>, the court highlighted some of the roles the Estate Trustee and the estate solicitor and held responsible for including, among other things, arranging for the funeral and disposition of remains.</p>
<p>Arranging for the funeral and disposition of remains can be burdensome, especially if the estate trustee was related to the Deceased.&nbsp;This task becomes even more daunting when they are dealing with the expenses of a funeral in which case, fewer are in the mood to bargain.&nbsp;Regrettably, this leads many spending more then they have to.&nbsp;</p>
<p>I recently came across an interesting article, <a href="http://www.smartmoney.com/personal-finance/estate-planning/how-to-cut-funeral-costs-now/#">How to Cut Funeral Costs</a>, which was published in The Wall Street Journal.&nbsp;Under this article, the author provides us with a few tips on how to keep costs reasonable when arranging a funeral service: <br />
<br />
&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt;">1.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Learn your Rights: Funeral homes are prohibited from charging certain fees, and there may be a requirement that <span style="color: black;">compels funeral homes to provide a written fee list upon request</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt;">2.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Pre-plan: &ldquo;<span style="color: black;">Have a conversation with your family about what you want and what&rsquo;s going to be meaningful to them.&rdquo;<br />
<br />
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt;">3.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Consider pre-owned plots: Purchasing a pre-owned plot has always been a common practice; but the purchaser has moved out of the area where his plot is purchased.&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt;">4.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Compare Funeral Home Prices: <span style="color: black;">it&rsquo;s worthwhile to shop around.&nbsp;Prices vary from one home to another</span></p>
<p>Thank you for reading,</p>
<p>Rick Bickhram - <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/Lawyers/Rick-Bickhram.shtml"><em>Click here for more information on Rick Bickhram</em></a>. </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

</item>
<item>
<title>Online Funerals</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>
<p>Computers have become a staple in the  lives of human beings, such that it is difficult to imagine that there  was a point in time when they did not exist.&nbsp;In an effort to remain  current with technology, some funeral homes have incorporated the use of  technology in how loved ones say their final farewells.</p>
<p>The Toronto Star <a href="http://www.thestar.com/living/article/847433--online-funerals-give-distant-loved-ones-way-to-say-goodbye?bn=1"><span>&nbsp;recently featured an  article</span></a> about a funeral home that allows distant loved ones  to say goodbye by watching the funeral service being streamed over the  internet.&nbsp;It sounds eerie, and certainly, there will always be concerns  about internet security, but for Brantford trooper Larry Zuidema Rudd,  who died when a roadside bomb exploded,  having an online funeral service allowed more then 40 of his colleagues  in Afghanistan to pay their final respects from their distant base.</p>
<p>The so-called &ldquo;sympathy casts,&rdquo; have  been growing in popularity.&nbsp;Helen Zuidema, the mother of our fallen  solider Zuidema Rudd, says that the sympathy casts have &ldquo;brought our  family together without them having to come here &hellip; they&rsquo;re still talking  about it months later.&rdquo;&nbsp;Zuidema still scans the funeral site, along  with its many photos, tributes and messages, about once a week. &nbsp;&ldquo;It  brings back a lot of memories that you kind of forget when you are  grieving,&rdquo; says Zuidema.</p>
<p>For funeral homes, embracing the  advances of technology has created an appreciation amongst loved ones,  faraway friends and relatives, who can now be included in saying their  final farewell.</p>
</p>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

</item>
<item>
<title>Tales from the Crypt</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I conclude my blog week by writing about the late Michael Jackson who was finally laid to rest on September 3, 2009. Ten long weeks after his death, Michael Jackson&rsquo;s coffin was placed in a mausoleum in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park, which is located outside of Los Angeles.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/sep/04/michael-jackson-burial &lt;http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/sep/04/michael-jackson-burial&gt; ">If reports are to be believed</a>, his body has been placed in the Holly Terrace, which is a large hall at the centre of Forest Lawn's monolithic grounds. Although the fascination of Michael Jackson will continue long after his death, the mausoleum is policed by private guards and is rumoured to be among the highest security resting places in the world.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/08/michael-jackson-forest-lawn-memorial-park-prices-tales-from-the-crypt/#ixzz0QiH326Ph">There have been reports </a>indicating that the price of grave-plots close to Michael Jackson's tomb have gone up $2,000 - $3,000 in value since Michael Jackson joined the neighbourhood.</p>
<p>Some reports have indicated that some private parties have asked for substantially more, with one person rumoured to have asked for $34,000 for a double unit inside of the Michael Jackson mausoleum. Even after death, Michael is still making headlines, this time in the cemetery world.</p>
<p>Thank you for reading and I hope you have an enjoyable weekend!</p>
<p>Rick Bickhram</p>
<p><em>Rick Bickhram - <a href="http://hullandhull.com/who_we_are_rick-bickhram.html">Click here for more information on Rick Bickhram.</a></em></p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2009/09/articles/topics/estate-trust/tales-from-the-crypt/</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

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<title>The Price for Spending Eternity with Marilyn Monroe</title>
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<![endif]--><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Earlier this month, Elsie Poncher posted on eBay her late husband's crypt for sale. The unique feature about the crypt is its location directly above the crypt of Hollywood icon, Marilyn Monroe in Westwood Village Memorial Park cemetery. Mrs. Poncher decided to <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-marilyn25-2009aug25,0,3839001.story">sell </a>the valuable crypt and move her husband's remains to another part of the cemetery in order pay the $1.6 million mortgage on her Beverly Hills home. <br />
<span>&nbsp;</span><br />
Last week, someone purchased the crypt with a winning bid of $4.6 million. That bid has since <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112281183&amp;ps=cprs">fallen through</a> with the bidder unable to pay but there were a number of other multi-million dollar bids which may now become the winning bid.<br />
<span>&nbsp;</span><br />
In Ontario, the </span><u><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><a href="http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90c04_e.htm"><em>Cemeteries Act</em></a></span> </u>
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<meta content="Microsoft Word 12" name="Originator"><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">prohibits the private resale of burial plots or crypts. When someone purchases a burial plot, they receive interment rights in perpetuity, not property rights. The property rights belong to the cemetery and if required, transfer to a third party requires the consent of the cemetery and the cemetery maintains the right to buy back the interment rights.<br />
<span>&nbsp;</span><br />
However,&nbsp; in the United States many states do not have similar legislation and some suggest that the reselling of burial plots have <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/17/AR2009081703041.html">increased in recent economic times </a>.<br />
<span>&nbsp;</span><br />
Thanks for Reading,</span></meta>
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<p><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Diane Vieira</span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><em>Diane Vieira - <a href="http://hullandhull.com/who_we_are_diane-vieira.html">Click here for more information on Diane Vieira</a>.</em></p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2009/09/articles/topics/funerals-2/the-price-for-spending-eternity-with-marilyn-monroe/</link>
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<category>&apos;estates</category><category>Blog</category><category>Cemeteries Act</category><category>Funerals</category><category>Marilyn Monroe</category><category>burial</category><category>funeral</category><category>law&quot;</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 06:06:33 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

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<item>
<title>Death, Taxes and Taxes on Death</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Ontario&rsquo;s new harmonized sales tax is coming into effect on July 1, 2010.&nbsp;One of its effects will be to impose PST on funeral services: services that have previously been exempted from PST.</p>
<p>According to the harmonized sales tax, funeral services will now be taxed at the rate of 13%, up from 5%.&nbsp;The effect on a $5,000 funeral would be to raise the tax payable from $250 to $650.</p>
<p>The new harmonized tax may also have an effect on prepaid funeral services.&nbsp;According to a May 27, 2009 <a href="http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/640974">Toronto Star article</a>, there are 224,257 prepaid funeral contracts in Ontario, and about 1 in 4 funerals in Ontario are prepaid.</p>
<p>The Ontario Minister of Finance has indicated that the government hopes to implement some sort of grandfathering clause, so that funeral services prepaid before a certain date remain exempted from the PST. However, nothing has been finalized yet.&nbsp;The cut-off date would likely be some time before July 1, 2010.</p>
<p>Those considering a prepaid funeral would be wise to complete their plans sooner rather than later.&nbsp;The new tax, like death, is approaching.</p>
<p>Thank you for reading.</p>
<p>Paul Trudelle</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2009/05/articles/topics/in-the-news/death-taxes-and-taxes-on-death/</link>
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<category>GST</category><category>In the News</category><category>Litigation</category><category>estate</category><category>funeral</category><category>harmonized</category><category>hull</category><category>paul</category><category>prepaid</category><category>pst</category><category>tax</category><category>trudelle</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 23:13:00 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

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<title>U.K. Man Loses Bid for Open Field Funeral Pyre</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>A recent case from Britain focuses the spotlight on the traditional Hindu cremation practice.&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />
A 70 year old Hindu spiritual leader, Davender Ghai, sought the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/08/hindu-funeral-pyre-ban">legal right </a>to an open air funeral pyre. In 2006, Newcastle City Council has refused Mr. Ghai&rsquo;s request for a permit for an open air cremation site in a remote part of Northumberland. Citing the Cremation Act, 1902, Council noted that the burning of human remains other than a crematorium is a criminal offence. The Ministry of Justice agreed with the Council&rsquo;s decision.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
Mr. Ghai appealed the Council&rsquo;s decision to the High Court. Mr. Ghai, who immigrated to Britain from Kenya in 1958, stated this he required an open air funeral pyre to release his spirit after death. Invoking Articles 8 and 9 of the <em>&nbsp;</em><em>European Convention on Human Rights Act</em>, Mr. Ghai argued that his religious freedom and freedom to family life were being infringed. Mr. Ghai requested to be able to follow the 4,000 year old tradition at the time of his death and noted that such permits would have to be regulated and pyres sites held away from urban and residential areas.&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />
Mr. Justice Cranston upheld the Council's decision. He agreed with the Ministry of Justice that open cremation is prohibited by law and that the prohibition was justified on the grounds of public health and public safety. The issue is not over yet, Justice Cranston did give Mr. Ghai permission to appeal his ruling to the Court of Appeal. Mr. Ghai has stated his intention to do so.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />
As the population ages in multicultural societies, we can expect to revisit similar issues frequently</p>
<p>Enjoy your day,<br />
&nbsp;</p>
<p>Diane Vieira<br />
<br />
&nbsp;</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2009/05/articles/topics/in-the-news/uk-man-loses-bid-for-open-field-funeral-pyre/</link>
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<category>Blog</category><category>Davender Ghai</category><category>Hindu</category><category>In the News</category><category>funeral</category><category>human rights</category><category>pyre</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 05:18:03 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

</item>
<item>
<title>Right to Choose Your Final Resting Place</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>A recent Toronto Life magazine article, <a href="http://www.torontolife.com/features/new-death-etiquette/?pageno=1">&ldquo;The New Death Etiquette&rdquo; </a>examines mourning in the 21<sup>st</sup> century.&nbsp;The new death etiquette includes multicultural hybrid funerals and intricate grieving rituals.&nbsp;Many funerals now are elaborate functions designed to reflect the individual personality of the deceased person.&nbsp;As stated in the article, there is no such thing as a standard burial these days.&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">Most of us probably do not like to think about our funeral and final resting place.&nbsp;However, when it comes time to preparing a Will, many individuals will ask their lawyer to include burial instructions, such as a wish for cremation or to be buried in a particular cemetery.&nbsp;It may come as a surprise to learn that in Ontario, such instructions are not binding on the estate trustee.&nbsp;It is the estate trustee who has the right and obligation to bury a deceased person, even in the face of objections from family members.&nbsp;The authority for this comes from an English case decided over 100 years ago, <i>Williams v. Williams</i> (1882), 20 Ch. D. 659, where it was held that there is no property in a dead body, and so a person cannot by will dispose of their own dead body.&nbsp;An estate trustee, however, has the right to custody and possession of a deceased&rsquo;s body until it is properly buried.&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">Have a great day!</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">Bianca La Neve</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/10/articles/topics/executors-and-trustees/right-to-choose-your-final-resting-place/</link>
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<category>Executors and Trustees</category><category>Funerals</category><category>General Interest</category><category>burial</category><category>estate</category><category>funeral</category><category>trustee</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>

</item>
<item>
<title>The Family Conference - Hull on Estates #96</title>
<description><![CDATA[Listen to <a href="http://media.libsyn.com/media/kirsten/HOE_96_FINAL.mp3">The Family Conference</a><br />
<br />
This week on Hull on Estates, Natalia and Allan discuss the Family Conference.<br />
<br />
<p>Comments? Send us an email at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com">hull.lawyers@gmail.com</a>, call us on the comment line at 206-350-6636, or leave us a comment on the <a href="http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/">Hull on Estate blog</a>.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>]]><![CDATA[<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND: #cbca98; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 2"><span lang="EN" style="FONT-SIZE: 17pt; COLOR: #323c3c; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-font-kerning: 18.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman">The Family Conference - </font><a title="Permalink for Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #20 - Claims against the Estate" href="http://www.hullandhull.com/podcast/?p=139"><span style="COLOR: #333333; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><font face="Times New Roman">Hull on Estates Podcast #96 </font></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span class="author"><span lang="EN-CA">Posted on </span></span><st1:date month="2" day="5" year="2008"><span class="author"><span lang="EN-CA">February 5<sup>th</sup>, 2008</span></span></st1:date><span class="author"><span lang="EN-CA"> by <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/who_we_are.html">Hull &amp; Hull LLP</a></span></span><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Hello and welcome to </span><st1:city><st1:place><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></st1:place></st1:city><span lang="EN-CA"> on Estates. You&rsquo;re listening to Episode #96 on </span><st1:date month="2" day="5" year="2008"><span lang="EN-CA">Tuesday, February 5<sup>th</sup>, 2008</span></st1:date><span lang="EN-CA">.</span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Welcome to </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"> on Estates, a series of podcasts for the Canadian legal community dealing with issues and insights surrounding estate planning in </span></em><st1:country-region><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Canada</span></em></st1:place></st1:country-region><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>Hosted by the lawyers of </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"> &amp; </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">, the podcast will touch on some key considerations when planning estates and Wills.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Now, here are today&rsquo;s hosts.<o:p></o:p></span></em></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Hi and welcome to another episode on </span><st1:city><st1:place><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></st1:place></st1:city><span lang="EN-CA"> on Estates. I&rsquo;m Natalia Angelini.</span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: Hi and I&rsquo;m Allan Socken.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: If you want to be heard on </span><st1:city><st1:place><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></st1:place></st1:city><span lang="EN-CA"> on Estates, you can participate in our discussion by leaving a comment. Give us a call at 206-350-6636. The number is in the show notes along with our e-mail address: <a href="mailto:hull.lawyers@gmail.com">hull.lawyers@gmail.com</a> or you can visit our blog at estatelaw.hullandhull.com.</span></font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">So Allan, it&rsquo;s great to be podcasting with you today. It&rsquo;s our first time together.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: I&rsquo;m very excited about it, Natalia.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: That&rsquo;s good. We&rsquo;re going to be talking about the family conference. So perhaps I&rsquo;ll just set out what it is. The family conference is a professionally mediated conference and it essentially provides a forum whereby a testator can reveal his or her proposed estate plan to intended adult beneficiaries. And the objective is to obtain their approval of the plan. So it&rsquo;s quite a unique animal, the family conference. It&rsquo;s really the only formal mechanism in place in estate matters where someone can, you know, look their loved ones in the eyes and explain their plan to them, answer any questions about why they wish to have their plans set out in that manner. And ultimately in an ideal scenario, get agreement on it. So Allan, why don&rsquo;t you tell our listeners what needs to happen in preparation for a conference.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: Well before the conference, I think probably the most important question to ask is who do you invite to the conference? And the simple answer is you invite all adults who are involved in the estate plan. At least, at a minimum, the people you invite would be the spouse of the person who made this estate plan as well as his children. And I think in inviting these people, it&rsquo;s really important that you speak to them and have a candid conversation with them, obviously before the conference, explain the purpose of a conference, namely for all the people to appreciate what the person&rsquo;s estate plan looks like and the reasons as to why they&rsquo;re leaving certain gifts the way that they are.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: And who else can be invited?</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: Really, any person who has an interest or involvement in the estate plan of the person.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: Right. And that would even include professionals, like the testator&rsquo;s estate lawyer, their financial planner or accountant, because they certainly can have a critical role in explaining or answering questions dealing with the assets.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA">Allan Socken: For sure. And I think the other important thing to make mention of is there may be certain circumstances, probably quite frequently, where minor children have an interest in the estate plan. And it&rsquo;s important to note that minor children should not be included in the family conference. In most jurisdictions, </span><st1:state><st1:place><span lang="EN-CA">Ontario</span></st1:place></st1:state><span lang="EN-CA"> included, there&rsquo;s an office known as the Office of the Children&rsquo;s Lawyer, whose mandate is to protect the interests of minor children. And depending on what the estate plan looks like, it may be necessary to have discussions with them to see if it&rsquo;s necessary for them to attend the conference as well.</span></font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: That&rsquo;s a good point, Allan. So are there any other preparatory steps?</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: The only other thing I&rsquo;d like to make mention of is the question as to where to hold the family conference. Often people think that it may be prudent to hold it at a family member&rsquo;s house. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>But the reason why, I think, it&rsquo;s not a good idea is, is often when you go to a person&rsquo;s house, it may turn into a social function and it may lose the business touch that&rsquo;s essential in planning for this conference. So I think probably the best place to hold a conference would be at the mediator&rsquo;s office so people can really appreciate the business-like environment that they&rsquo;re encountering and the importance placed on the family conference.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: In addition, it really is like a mediation and you want to be able to have individual caucuses as well as group caucuses. So you need several rooms and breakout rooms and privacy so you can really have it proceed in a meaningful way. So again, I think a mediator&rsquo;s office or some other kind of office is ideal.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: I think moving along, Natalia, now we should address the agenda that&rsquo;s put in place before the family conference. I think it&rsquo;s important to stress to our listeners that an agenda is essential to have so that people are aware of what&rsquo;s going to be taking place at the conference and so that divergence can be avoided as much as possible. So probably what&rsquo;s important to include in the agenda is really the overview of the person&rsquo;s estate plan which would include the proposed new Will, who the executor will be, funeral arrangements, debts of the person, taxation issues, guardianship of minor children, who may be the Power of Attorney and dealing with the distribution of specific assets for the estate.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: Right. I think it is critical to have an agenda and the family conference is chaired. And it&rsquo;s usually chaired by either the testator or the mediator or someone else selected by the testator. So it&rsquo;s great assistance to them to have an agenda to follow. </font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Now in respect of how the actual conference works over the course of a day or more than one day, it is much like a mediation. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>And, you know, there is, I think, initially, commonly a group meeting where the chairperson goes through the rules of the day. There&rsquo;s usually a family conference agreement signed which sets out that the mediator is neutral, that he or she is not offering legal advice, that all discussions are without prejudice, and of course, that the mediator is not liable for anything done or omitted at the family conference. So the usual sort of waivers. In addition, a document entitled Rules for Meeting is also signed. And Allan, why don&rsquo;t you set out what is contained in that document?</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: Typically for the Rules of the Meeting, it sets out that the parties understand who&rsquo;s paying for the mediator&rsquo;s time but not withstanding whoever is paying for the mediator&rsquo;s time, the mediator still will be neutral throughout the process. As well, the parties agree that they&rsquo;ll conduct themselves in a business and professional approach. And in that sense, there&rsquo;ll be no harsh language spoken either at the other parties or the mediator. And believe me, I&rsquo;m sure Natalia also can attest to the fact she&rsquo;s seen certain times where discussions can get pretty heated.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: This is true. This is true. And I think in this kind of conference you really want to encourage views to be shared and grievances to be aired, but at the same time, in order for resolutions to come about, you want to make sure that everything is discussed in a cordial manner.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: And just the other thing to make mention of also is one of the rules should also include that all the parties are bound and acknowledge that they&rsquo;re bound by the Family Conference Agreement. So they can leave whenever they feel like it if they feel progress is not being made. Certainly the mediator will try to keep them there and have the parties agree to at least spend a day there to try to sort things out. But even if the parties want to leave at the end of the day and no agreement can be reached, the parties still agree that all information and all people who were present can&rsquo;t be subpoenaed in that respect. I think that&rsquo;s important also to include in the agreement, Natalia.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: Good point, Allan. So again, it is a fluid process like any other type of mediation and it really can unfold in a different way depending on the parties and the circumstances. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>And if an agreement is not ultimately reached at the end of the day, you can, you know, reconvene on another day if all or some of the people are willing to and you can get an agreement at a later time. What that looks like doesn&rsquo;t necessarily have to be in accordance with the proposed estate plan. It&rsquo;s not necessarily an imposition of that plan. The plan can be varied or amended pursuant to the comments and views of the beneficiaries and once an agreement is ultimately reached, it&rsquo;s papered in a document that&rsquo;s called The Family Constitution. And Allan, maybe you can expand a bit on that.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: Sure. Basically, you probably remember from law school, Natalia, that we always talk about the constitution as being a living tree.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: That&rsquo;s right. Way back when I do remember.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: Well not surprisingly, The Family Constitution is also a living document that requires amendments from time to time. Because as people move on and age in years, no doubt their estate plan changes and when their estate plan changes, it&rsquo;s really important that The Family Constitution is also updated. And I think as a preamble to The Family Constitution, it&rsquo;s important to note that while family members may have different views and opinions, they unanimously - hopefully that&rsquo;s the goal at the end of the day - that they unanimously decide to create this Family Constitution. And I mean, in certain circumstances, there may be family members who don&rsquo;t want to agree to The Family Constitution or some people may not even want to have the meeting in the first place. So I think the role of the mediator shouldn&rsquo;t necessarily be to prevent the family conference from going ahead, but perhaps to engage the people who are willing and interested at first to participate in the conference and hopefully, if success can be achieved there, people who didn&rsquo;t want to participate in the first place may be inclined to give it another look and perhaps be willing to review the constitution that was agreed to. And even in certain circumstances, they may be willing to sign the agreement, albeit they may expect some changes to be made. But at the end of the day, some progress can happen even if not everyone in the family conference is willing at first to participate. And I think that&rsquo;s important to keep in mind.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: Right, and one benefit to proceeding even if you don&rsquo;t have everyone&rsquo;s consensus is that the process can be of real value because it shows a testator&rsquo;s clear intention as to how he or she wishes to divide his or her assets, which can really deflate any kind of brewing Will challenge at the end of the day. So litigation avoidance is one real positive potential outcome of the conference. And if you actually do get a Family Constitution signed, then it&rsquo;s a great thing to have because it includes an agreement not to contest the Will. So that&rsquo;s a great way to avoid litigation or ultimately if litigation is commenced, to use that document in defence of that.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: And just one final point for me to make Natalia, if that&rsquo;s okay, is probably the most complicated aspect of this family conference is really the need for full disclosure. And for a lot of people, that&rsquo;s really a difficult thing to do because there may be situations that people are embarrassed to admit or really don&rsquo;t want to disclose. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>For example, extra-marital affairs, not dividing your estate equally among your children. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>But at the end of the day, if you want success to be reached with the family conference and you don&rsquo;t want your Will to be contested or other legal remedies pursued when you die, I really think it&rsquo;s important that you make mention of these difficult aspects so people can appreciate and they don&rsquo;t feel as though you&rsquo;re hiding anything. So while it&rsquo;s difficult to disclose this information, I really think it&rsquo;s important to get across that at the end, if you hide it, it will really do more harm than good at the end of the day.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: That&rsquo;s right. I mean the fact is this is a delicate process and it&rsquo;s not one that I think most people are willing to enter into because I think a lot of us would rather not deal with these delicate and difficult issues during our lifetime and we&rsquo;ll just wait for everyone else to kind of deal with it after we&rsquo;ve passed on. So I think people need to have, I think in a lot of cases, it helps to sort of have the courage to go ahead with the process and be open and ultimately, in an ideal scenario, get agreement on the issues or at least, you know, canvass them in an open and honest way. </font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">So well, I think that brings us to the end of this week&rsquo;s discussion. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>Thanks for listening and thanks for joining me today, Allan.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: Thanks Natalia, I had a great time.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Natalia Angelini: That&rsquo;s great. And we look forward to hearing from our listeners. You can send us an email at </font><a href="mailto:hull.lawyers@gmail.com"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">hull.lawyers@gmail.com</font></a><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> or just pick up the phone and leave us a message on our comment line at 206-350-6636. And again, you can also visit our blogs at estatelaw.hullandhull.com, where you&rsquo;ll even find more information and discussion on today&rsquo;s practice of estate law. We hope you enjoyed the show. I&rsquo;m Natalia.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Allan Socken: And I&rsquo;m Allan.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Natalia Angelini: And until next time, so long. <o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">This has been </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"> on Estates with the lawyers of </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"> &amp; </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The podcast you have been listening to has been provided as an information service.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>It is a summary of current legal issues in estates and estate planning.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>It is not legal advice and you are reminded to always talk with a legal professional regarding your specific circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></em></font></font></p>
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<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/02/articles/podcasts-audio/the-family-conference-hull-on-estates-96/</link>
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<category> PODCASTS / AUDIO</category><category>Conduct</category><category>Hull on Estates</category><category>Lawyer&apos;</category><category>Mediation</category><category>Office of the Children</category><category>Rules</category><category>Rules for Meeting</category><category>agenda</category><category>agreement not to contest</category><category>clarifying</category><category>distribution</category><category>estate planning forum</category><category>family constitution</category><category>full disclosure</category><category>funeral</category><category>guardianship</category><category>liability</category><category>litigation avoidance</category><category>mediator</category><category>minors</category><category>neutrality</category><category>professional moderation</category><category>s</category><category>subpoena</category><category>taxation</category><category>testator</category><category>the Family Conference</category><category>the Family Conference Agreement</category><category>waivers</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:10:00 -0500</pubDate>
<dc:creator>Hull and Hull LLP</dc:creator>
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