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Listen to Alter Ego Trusts.

This week on Hull on Estates, Natalia and Chris discuss what Alter Ego Trusts are and the pros and cons of using Alter Ego Trusts.

Comments? Send us an email at hull.lawyers@gmail.com, call us on the comment line at 206-350-6636, or leave us a comment on the Hull on Estates blog.

Alter Ego Trusts - Hull on Estates Podcast #107

Posted on April 22^nd, 2008 by Hull & Hull LLP

Natalia Angelini: Hello and welcome to Hull on Estates. You’re listening to Episode #107 on Tuesday, April 22^nd, 2008.

Welcome to Hull on Estates, a series of podcasts for the Canadian legal community dealing with issues and insights surrounding estate planning in Canada.   Hosted by the lawyers of Hull & Hull, the podcast will touch on some key considerations when planning estates and Wills.  Now, here are today’s hosts.

Natalia Angelini: Hi and welcome to another episode of Hull on Estates. I’m Natalia Angelini.

Chris Graham: And I’m Chris Graham.

Natalia Angelini: So Chris, welcome today. We’ve never podcasted before although it feels like we have.

Chris Graham: Many times Natalia, but I’m sure it will be a pleasure.

Natalia Angelini: Yes I think it will and today we’re talking about a subject that is quite interesting. We’re going to cover the issue of alter ego trusts. Now alter ego trusts are a newer instrument and it’s a type of trust that satisfies certain requirements under the Income Tax Act and which are defined in Section 248 of the Income Tax Act. So perhaps I’ll just start by setting out some of the requirements for an alter ego trust. Chris, you can feel free to jump in any time here.

So this is the kind of trust that is really appropriate for an older person because the settlor has to be at least 65 years of age at the time the trust was created. And the trust must have been created after 1999.  So it is, as I said, a newer type of trust instrument. The settlor also has to be able to receive all of the income of the trust that arises before his or her death and no one except the settlor may, before his or her death, receive or obtain the use of any income or capital of the trust. And I think finally the trust does not make an election referred to in the Income Tax Act and that’s, for anyone who’s interested, that’s in sub-paragraph 104, sub 4a, sub 2.1 of the Income Tax Act.

Chris Graham: That was a mouthful.

Natalia Angelini: That was a mouthful, I’m sure we’ll all be rushing to go look up the Section.

Chris Graham: Applies to pretty much any reference to the Income Tax Act.

Natalia Angelini: Exactly. So those are the requirements for an alter ego trust to exist and perhaps we can chit chat about some of its other elements.

Chris Graham: Yeah, I guess the first element that any lawyer will know, but people should also be aware of, is that a trust, including an alter ego trust, is a separate tax payer. For the purposes of paying taxes, it is its own person.

Natalia Angelini: That’s right Chris, good point. What else makes the alter ego trust distinct?

Chris Graham: Well, the rule against perpetuities which non-lawyers call the 21 year rule, some lawyers do too, of course, better than me, does not apply to deferral of capital gains tax until the settlor dies or until the capital property is disposed of during the settlor’s lifetime. So basically, if the settlor lives past age – say they create the trust at 65 and they live past age 86 which a lot of people are these days, well the rule against perpetuities in other trusts might kick in. It doesn’t kick in to the alter ego trust.

Okay, so in short, what happens is that on the death of the settlor, there’s a deemed disposition of the assets that are in the trust and capital gains taxes cannot be – they can’t be set against the settlor’s capital losses or capital losses in the trust can’t be set against the settlor’s capital gains. Since the trust is, it’s an inter vivos trust which means during the lifetime of the settlor, gains will be subject to tax at the highest applicable marginal rate.

Natalia Angelini: And that’s a good point and I think essentially income earned in the trust will be taxed as if the settlor earned it personally during his or her lifetime. So even though the 21 year rule does not apply, the trust can make an election under the Income Tax Act not to have a deemed disposition on the death of the settlor. So if that election is made, the 21 year rule will apply and there won’t be a rollover with respect to transfer of assets into the trust. And I think there’s one other element to an alter ego trust that we should cover.

Chris Graham: Yes, residence is a basic general rule, residence of the trustee will determine the residence of the trust, I think that’s pretty much trite in most cases. However here’s where the kicker comes in. If the trustee becomes a non-resident, the trust will also be deemed, in many situations, to have also ceased to be a resident of Canada and must therefore pay the deemed disposition of its assets. Now why does that matter? Well who makes these trusts? People at least 65 years of age, with a fair bit of money. What do most of those people do in the winter? They pack their bags, they’re smart people, they avoid our winters. They go down to Florida. And therein lies the risk of being deemed to have become a non-resident. We’re not immigration lawyers, we’re far from being experts in legal requirements of residency and what deemed rules are and when they kick in.  But we do know there’s something out there and if you create one of these trusts or you certainly have to keep this in mind and get some highly qualified advice.

Natalia Angelini: Now I’d like to cover some of the reasons that you would want to set up an alter ego trust because this is a kind of trust instrument that is, in my view, appropriate for a narrower scope of people and not as broad an audience as some other trust vehicles. I think its best when you’re dealing with a really large estate because the best or what seems to be the best advantage to setting up an alter ego trust is avoiding probate tax. So if you’ve got a large estate and you’re potentially going to be paying significant sums in probate tax and those sums are .5% on the first $50,000.00 and 1.5% on the balance of the value of a person’s estate. So those numbers can really add up.

And one of the other great advantages of an alter ego trust is the privacy factor. The value of your assets are not made public. So if that’s important to you, then that’s one advantage of that vehicle. And something else that you can benefit from by creating an alter ego trust is creditor protection, because ownership of the asset is transferred to the trustee. However you’ve got to be careful because if it’s ultimately challenged and the purpose of the trust is found to have been set up to avoid or defeat creditors, then those assets can be clawed back and you won’t be able to protect them against creditors.

Chris Graham: Absolutely, Natalia. Federal and provincial statutes, for instance, the Fraudulent Conveyances Act contain lots of very powerful ways that creditors can go after debtors who tried or purported to enter into transactions for the sole purpose of protecting assets from claims. That’s something obviously you have to get expert advice on because it’s a case by case basis and the statutes are complex and there’s lots of case law and all the rest of it. But if you’re looking to create an alter ego trust to defraud creditors or whatever, that’s not something that they were really set up for.

Natalia Angelini: And I think one of the other advantages to setting up an alter ego trust is the prevention of litigation because it is more difficult to challenge the validity of an inter vivos trust than a Will, for instance. So that is something to be kept in mind.

Chris Graham: And one practical advantage of it, probably not really what this type of trust is designed to do, but if the settlor settles this trust, an alter ego trust, and then later becomes incapable, well that particular – the assets in the trust are self-administering. In other words, no one has to go to Court and initiate expensive and potentially contentious guardianship proceedings in order to deal with this property. You don’t have to worry about “oh my god, this person who’s been running this company is suddenly out of the picture, what do we do? Everything’s falling apart”. No, it’s taken care of, it’s in trust, there’s a trustee, these assets are well in hand and they’re also being managed in accordance with a plan laid down by the settlor already.

Natalia Angelini: So I can’t think of any other reasons for setting up a trust off the top of my head, so maybe we’ll move to reasons that you might not want to set up an alter ego trust.

Chris Graham: One of the major reasons not to, is that when you put something into an alter ego trust or any trust, you lose control of that asset, it no longer belongs to you.  And it never ceases to amaze me how many people who have set up estate freezes and what not, don’t appreciate that fundamental point. It is no longer theirs when it goes into trust, whatever it is.

Natalia Angelini: That’s right.  So you certainly have to be mindful of that and if, on the other hand, you do appoint yourself as trustee being the settlor, you can retain some control but you’ll forfeit your right to use the trust to reduce overall tax liabilities. So there’s a pro and con to proceeding in that way as well.

Chris Graham: This brings us back to what we were saying earlier about not being able to write off capital gains based on maybe the settlor’s capital losses on death. There’s also that aspect of tax planning, which is way beyond me.

Natalia Angelini: I’ll leave that one alone. So onto – another reason that you might hesitate to set up an alter ego trust is naturally there’s going to be legal costs and costs of obtaining tax advice.  For instance, ongoing administration expenses, trustee fees and the cost of annual tax returns that need to be filed. So those are just some of the costs built in that, you know, may not be – some people may not be interested in incurring.

Chris Graham: I thought people liked paying their lawyers, their accountants, their dentists.

Natalia Angelini: Yeah I don’t think –

Chris Graham: Their financial advisors.

Natalia Angelini: So I think we’ve covered the nuts and bolts of an alter ego trust meaning what it is, what its elements are, the advantages and disadvantages of setting one up. And they certainly are, you know, a welcome edition to the tools available to people in planning their estates, particularly for the older client. However, the advantages of confidentiality and probate tax savings definitely needs to be weighed against the tax considerations and potential tax disadvantages to setting up the trust.

Chris Graham: It is a state-of-the-art statutory trust and as such, contained in the Income Tax Act, and as such it has a broad variety of advantages and disadvantages.

Natalia Angelini: If you’re interested in learning more about this subject or just in reading more on it, then there’s a couple of great papers that we can refer you to. One is by Elena Hoffstein. It’s called Alter Ego Trusts and Joint Partner Trusts: Tips and Traps. And she presented this paper at the Fifth Annual Estates and Trusts Forum. And there’s also a more recent paper by Tim Yuden, called – and it contains an annotated alter ego trust and that was presented at the Taxation of Trusts and Estates:  A Practical Approach Seminar on March 3^rd, 2008. So those are two great sources that we’ve certainly referred to in putting on this subject today and we hope that they help you as well.

Chris Graham: It’s nice light reading, too.

Natalia Angelini: Nice light reading. So I think that brings us to the end of our discussion this week. Thanks for listening and thanks for joining me,Chris.

Chris Graham: That was a pleasure, Natalia. I look forward to podcasting with you again soon, as always.

Natalia Angelini: Me too! So perhaps one thing we can leave you with is we’d be happy to hear from you, so you can send us an e-mail at hull.lawyers @gmail.com. Or give us a call at our comment line being: 206-350-6636.

Alternatively, you can also visit our blog page at estatelaw.hullandhull.com where you’ll get even more information and discussion on today’s practice of estate law. I hope you enjoyed the show. I’m Natalia.

Chris Graham: And I’m Chris.

Natalia Angelini: And until next time, so long.

This has been Hull on Estates with the lawyers of Hull & Hull.  The podcast you have been listening to has been provided as an information service.  It is a summary of current legal issues in estates and estate planning.  It is not legal advice and you are reminded to always talk with a legal professional regarding your specific circumstances.

To listen to other podcasts, or to leave a question or comment, please visit our website at www.hullandhull.com.

Our theme music is Upper Structure by DJ AKid  and is courtesy of the Podsafe Music Network.

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Listen to Sham and Secret Trusts.

This week on Hull on estates, Ian and Suzana discuss Sham and Secret Trusts.

Comments? Send us an email at hull.lawyers@gmail.com, call us on the comment line at 206-350-6636, or leave us a message on the Hull on Estates blog.

Sham and Secret Trusts - Hull on Estates Podcast #105

Posted on April 8^th, 2008 by Hull & Hull LLP

Suzana Popovic-Montag: Hi and welcome to Hull on Estates. You’re listening to Episode #105 of our podcast on Tuesday, April 8^th, 2008.

Welcome to Hull on Estates, a series of podcasts for the Canadian legal community dealing with issues and insights surrounding estate planning in Canada.   Hosted by the lawyers of Hull & Hull, the podcast will touch on some key considerations when planning estates and Wills.  Now, here are today’s hosts.

Ian Hull: Hi Suzana, its Ian Hull here.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: Hi and it’s Suzana Popovic-Montag. How are you today?

Ian Hull: Just great. We’re celebrating what, 105 now? We haven’t been doing this since 100 so good to be back, good to think about some issues that have been rumbling around in my mind. Just want to remind everyone to feel free to call in to our call-in number at 206-350-6636.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: Or you can drop us an e-mail at our gmail address which is hull.lawyers@gmail.com. Or, of course, you can visit us at our blog which is estatelaw.hullandhull.com.

Ian Hull: So Suzana, I know that when this launches into the internet, we are going to both actually be out of the country. I’m not going to be as nearly as exotic a spot as you are. But you’re off to Vienna and Prague to test the world markets on estate law and on law generally at a great conference. What your trip triggered in my mind was I thought we might have a discussion today about was issues that have, sort of, a broad and international perspective. And that, of course, ties into trust law generally. Where you’re going, both jurisdictions in Prague, it’ll be slightly different, I think it’s more of a civil code, but the Vienna system as well you’re going to be tied into the – learning a lot about the civil code. But the common law and where to cross the border is governed, trust laws are fairly consistent. And one of the things that they use tremendously in planning in Europe is, of course, trusts to avoid what can be very draconian and overwhelming tax liabilities on death. The classic scenario, certainly in the U.K., that a lot is written about and much case law comes out of, is situations where you create a trust that isn’t really a trust and we call it, of course, sham trusts. Another scenario is, of course, where you might have a situation where you created a secret trust or a semi-secret trust. So I thought it might be fun to talk a little bit about those angles on trust law.  And why don’t we start with the sham trust, if that’s ok.?

Suzana Popovic-Montag: That’s great, Ian and I know you’ve written quite a bit on this topic and I think it’s a really interesting one. It doesn’t necessarily – it isn’t necessarily something that we see a lot of but it definitely is something that is on the rise in terms of the literature that’s out there. What a sham trust really is and I guess the best way to, sort of, start with a description of it, is to start with the concept of a bare trust which is a simple trust in that the trustee is a repository of the trust property and he or she or it has no real active management duties to perform.

Ian Hull: And, of course, we’re talking about sham trusts, trying to essentially avoid sham trusts because if it is called a sham trust, then CRA and, of course, the Courts won’t give you the protections nor the tax advantages that may or may not exist. So your comment about the bare trust is crucial because that can be a useful and legitimate tool to create a trust relationship. There are, of course, really the opposite to a trust, proper trust with the three certainties or a bare trust as you’re describing, which is a proper trust with the three certainties only with a see-through flow-through in terms of the responsibilities. The opposite would be the sham trust itself. And that’s where the Courts and CRA get a little fussy about it.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And on the face of it, it really does appear to be a trust in the sense that there is a trustee, there is a beneficiary and equitable rights are created in those beneficiaries.

Ian Hull: So in a situation where a sham trust has been held by the Court, a trust has been held to be a sham trust and not legitimate for the purposes being sought, is where the Court finds that the only real duty of the trustee is to do what the settlor says. And I know that’s sort of a bit vague but the Courts often go on and say well, you know, they describe these sham trusts as pretend trusts.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And they do that because the common intention of the parties in these kinds of circumstances, the Court will find, is that it was not to actually create a trust with its associated rights and obligations.

Ian Hull: And really the Court just gets frustrated and a little cranky with people who create these sort of trust arrangements because they see them as an act or a document that is intended to mislead third parties.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And I know sometimes the cases will actually go so far as to say and I’m just quoting from one of the cases that I am thinking of, that it’s an illusion basically, that it’s calculated to lead the tax collector, i.e. CRA, away from the actual tax payer. And so what it ultimately does is creates this façade of a reality of a trust, when in fact there isn’t one.

Ian Hull: Alright, so let’s talking about determining if it is a sham trust and what the Courts will look at.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: Well I think the first thing that they start with, of course, is the actual terms of the trust.

Ian Hull: And then they tend to talk about it being really a question of control.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And in that sense, you know, it seems to be that they’re looking at whether or not the settlor has maintained control notwithstanding the fact that a trust has, on the face of it, been established.

Ian Hull: And one of the tests that I’ve seen in the case law is that the Courts will say, is the trust a mere alter ego of the settlor and that’s all?

Suzana Popovic-Montag: Now, Ian, I think we sort of understand the concept of a sham trust.  And what would you say would be sort of a good example of that, that you’ve seen recently or where people would want to try to create these situations and then ultimately not be successful because a Court finds that, in fact, it’s not a valid trust?

Ian Hull: Well the classic one that we see in Canada is the off-shore trust. Of course, off-shore trusts can be a good idea, they’re not all sham trusts, for sure. They create excellent tax planning, estate planning and creditor protection availability for wealthy clients. But if it’s not done correctly, you do create the difficulties that a Court from another jurisdiction will be looking through the trust and determining whether or not it is a sham.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And I guess that sort of underscores the importance of working possibly with counsel in the jurisdiction where you’re trying to establish that trust, as well, in order to create something that hopefully will sustain the test by a Court.

Ian Hull: And, of course, and you know again, talking about the positives, is these trusts, the bare trusts in particular, can be a useful tool, these off-shore trusts can be useful tools, they create a tremendous amount of ability for wealthy clients to have confidentiality.  And while they have to in Canada, of course, declare their worldwide income, they don’t necessarily have to have it openly documented for others to see what exists and where it exists.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And so there definitely are advantages to it. But what would you say would be a consequence of the fact that it’s a Court or someone who would ultimately determine, I guess CRA, that it isn’t in fact a valid trust?

Ian Hull: Well I think the key is, I mean many times these sham trusts are established for tax reasons. But the trust… where the Courts, what the Courts will do is, is that they’ll say, if it is indeed a sham trust, the trust assets are then taxed as if it was in the hands of the settlor. So, you know, any of the advantages that you may have tried to create are lost.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And I guess most importantly, the creditor protection and, I guess, as well the loss of confidentiality to some extent, as well.

Ian Hull: For sure and I think that’s  – you know, in many situations, a bit of a deal breaker.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: I think if we just spend a couple minutes, we’ve got some time here, Ian, to turn to the concept of secret trusts. And I know I’ve heard you speak about them in the past and you say, you know, what they really amount to is taking the trust concept as we understand it at law and then becoming, you know, agent 007s.

Ian Hull: Absolutely. It’s the James Bond trust. And this trust, if done properly, can be a useful tool to again, it doesn’t elude CRA, but it might elude people who want to keep their assets more confidential and it’s an on-shore opportunity and an off-shore.  But it’s an on-shore opportunity to create a situation where the assets transfer from the settlor or a testator, depending if it’s someone who’s passed away, to a beneficiary, but through a third party.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And the advantage there is that, of course, trusts can remain private documents, whereas Wills are potentially very public. And so if you’re trying to create an arrangement where you’re providing for a beneficiary-trustee relationship without it necessarily being known by everyone, you try to create this kind of secret trust arrangement.

Ian Hull: That’s right. And I mean, so the client really in this situation wants to make a gift but the nature of that gift they do not want to make public for whatever reason. And I think of an easy illustration was one that I ran into on a case that talked about a situation where the individual had a lot of wealth, wanted to pass on some of that wealth to the child after death, didn’t want the child really – not that the child should know, but didn’t want the public to know just how wealthy that child was going to be, because he feared people would prey on that child and try to take advantage of that child’s financial circumstances.

So the steps were to leave it through to a third party, hold it on a secret trust, the terms of which we’ll talk about in a moment here.  But the terms of which are disclosed properly and then the identification of the terms of the trust can, sort of, hold their own.

Alright, so we’re just about winding up, but I just want to remind, sort of, when I think about it, I’m reminded of the secret trust because the key is, is that the trust is typically not reduced in writing, the trustee will typically keep the money for him or herself, which obviously creates its own problems, but it is one that you need to have in some way, either through provisions of the Will or some way, articulated what the terms of the trust are.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And that really is the key because this arrangement, by very virtue of the fact that it is a secret one, has to somehow be, as you say, reduced to provide the settlor with as much guarantee or as much protection as possible, in light of the fact that, you know, there are these inherent difficulties with it.

Ian Hull: So, in conclusion, you need, sort of, the essential ingredients to pull off a secret trust, is of course, you need a trust with the three certainties.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And you also need an intention of the deceased to actually benefit the secret beneficiaries.

Ian Hull: You need communication of the trust terms to the trustee and/or the beneficiary.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: And thirdly, you want to have acceptance by the trustee or the beneficiary which is going to be sufficient to actually induce the testator not to execute a Will to that effect.

Ian Hull: Terrific. Okay well, thank you very much, Suzana, good to be back on Hull on Estates. Hope that was certainly interesting for me to review these reasonably unique trust questions, but they do pop up from time to time and can be an important part of an estates practice. So I remind everyone to feel free to call in to our call-in number, 206-350-6636.

Suzana Popovic-Montag: Or, of course, feel free to send us an e-mail at hull.lawyers@gmail.com or visit our blog and webpage at estatelaw.hullandhull.com. Thanks very much, Ian

This has been Hull on Estates with the lawyers of Hull & Hull.  The podcast you have been listening to has been provided as an information service.  It is a summary of current legal issues in estates and estate planning.  It is not legal advice and you are reminded to always talk with a legal professional regarding your specific circumstances.

To listen to other podcasts, or to leave a question or comment, please visit our website at www.hullandhull.com.

Our theme music is Upper Structure by DJ AKid  and is courtesy of the Podsafe Music Network.

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