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<copyright>Copyright 2008</copyright>
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<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:12:54 -0500</pubDate>
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<title>11TH ANNUAL ESTATES AND TRUSTS SUMMIT</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>The 11<sup>th</sup> Annual Estates and Trusts Summit was held in Toronto on November 19 and 20, 2008.&nbsp;This excellent program featured a number of experienced practitioners speaking on a broad array of estates and trusts topics.</p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Topics (and speakers) included:</p>
<ul type="square" style="margin-top: 0cm">
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Family Law Update (Karon Bales)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Shareholder Issues &ndash; The Family Business in Succession Planning (Frank Archibald)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Dealing with Insolvent and Bankrupt Estates (Barry Corbin and Robert Klotz)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">The Non-Resident Factor in Estate Planning (Mary Anne Bueschkens and M. Elena Hoffstein)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Update on the Trust and Estate Provisions in the Protocol to the Canada/U.S. Income Tax Treaty (Beth Webel and Jim Yager)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">New Strategies for Post-Mortem Tax Planning &ndash; The Eligible Dividend Rules and More (Heather Evans)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Powers of Attorney and the Duty to Account &ndash; An Update (Liza Sheard)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Powers of Appointment (Timothy Youdan)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">The Will is Not the Whole Picture - Integrating the Transfer of Wealth both Inside and Outside the Estate (Wendy Templeton)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">New Developments in Insurance and Estate Planning (Graham Carter)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Update on Practice Directions for the Estates List (The Honourable Mr. Justice David M. Brown)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Capacity and Other Issues in Power of Attorney and Guardianship Disputes (Jan Goddard)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">A Clinician&rsquo;s Perspective on Assessing Testamentary Capacity and Related Capacities (Dr. Kenneth Shulman)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Capacity Issues &ndash; The Perspective of the Hospital, Retirement Home and Group Home (Wendy Griesdorf)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">The Vulnerability of Pre-Death Gifts (Eric Hoffstein)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">The Scope of the Attorney&rsquo;s Powers (Sender Tator)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">The Incapable Minor Turning 18 (Clare Burns)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Remarks from the New Children&rsquo;s Lawyer for the Province of Ontario (Debra Stephens)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Marshalling the Evidence For and Against Capacity in a Will Challenge (Hilary Laidlaw)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Short Circuiting the Frivolous Will Challenge (Hull and Hull&rsquo;s <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/who_we_are_cvanderzee.html">Craig Vander Zee</a>)</li>
    <li style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Mediation of Capacity Issues &ndash; The Mediator&rsquo;s Perspective (Felice Kirsh and Archie Rabinowitz)</li>
</ul>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">If you were not able to attend, the seminar materials will be available from the <a href="http://ecom.lsuc.on.ca/cle/program.jsp?id=CLE08-0110600-A-REG">Law Society of Upper Canada</a>.</p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Thank you for reading,</p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt">Paul Trudelle</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/11/articles/topics/estate-trust/11th-annual-estates-and-trusts-summit/</link>
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<category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Litigation</category><category>Trust</category><category>estate</category><category>hull</category><category>paul</category><category>summit</category><category>toronto</category><category>trudelle</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:21:30 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<item>
<title>The Top Three Common Claims Against Lawyers</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I recently read an article regarding the most common claims against lawyers, which is authored by Dan Pinnington who is the director of practicePro, LawPro&rsquo;s risk and practice management program (<a href="http://www.abanet.org/lpm/lpt/articles/mgt04052.html">click here for the article</a>).&nbsp;I found it particularly interesting that only a small portion of LawPro claims account for a lawyer&rsquo;s inability to know or apply the substantive law.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">The most common claim involves communication between lawyer and client.&nbsp;Dan breaks down the type of communication errors into three categories.&nbsp;According to the article, the most common communication related error, is the failure to follow the client&rsquo;s instructions.&nbsp;&nbsp;The second type of communication error is the lawyer doing work or taking steps on a matter, but failing to obtain the client&rsquo;s consent or to inform the client.&nbsp;The third type of communication error involves the failure to explain to the client simple administrative things (i.e. timing of steps on the matter, fees and disbursement).&nbsp;Dan states that you can reduce your exposure to this type of claim by managing your client&rsquo;s expectations from the very start of the matter and actively communicating with the client at all stages of the matter.&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">The second most common claim is missed deadlines and time management related errors.&nbsp;The most common time-related error is a failure to know or to ascertain a deadline (i.e. limitation period).&nbsp;There is a concern that procrastination-related errors are on an upwards trend.&nbsp;Dan states that these types of errors are easily preventable with better time management skills and the proper use of tickler systems.</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">The third most common error is the inadequate investigation or discovery of facts.&nbsp;&nbsp; To avoid these types of claims lawyers have to &ldquo;dig deeper&rdquo;, take the time to read between the lines so that all of the appropriate issues and concerns associated with the subject matter can be identified.&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">I hope my final blog will assist all of us in our practise.&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt">Rick Bickhram &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/10/articles/topics/estate-trust/the-top-three-common-claims-against-lawyers/</link>
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<category>Against</category><category>Blog</category><category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Hull &amp; Hull LLP</category><category>Rick Bickhram</category><category>Trust</category><category>claims</category><category>estate</category><category>hull</category><category>lawyers</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 05:00:04 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<item>
<title>The Duty to Dispose of the Body</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Upon the death of a person, a duty arises to bury or otherwise dispose of the remains in a decent and dignified fashion.&nbsp; But who does this duty fall upon? &nbsp;<br />
<br />
It is well established in the jurisprudence for Ontario that plans for the service and burial arrangements are the responsibility of the estate trustee.&nbsp; This responsibility can conflict with the wishes and expectations of the deceased and family members, particularly in a religious context. <br />
<br />
In Saleh v. Reichert, the deceased was of the Muslim faith.&nbsp; Her husband had converted to the Muslim faith for the purpose of there marriage.&nbsp; There was evidence indicating that the deceased expressed her wish to be cremated upon her death.&nbsp; The deceased's husband was appointed as the estate trustee without a will and intended to honour the deceased's wishes.&nbsp; The deceased's father objected to the cremation on religious grounds. <br />
<br />
The court affirmed the fundamental duty of an estate trustee is to ensure that the remains of a body be disposed of in a decent and dignified fashion.&nbsp; The court held that religious law has no bearing on the case.&nbsp;&nbsp; In Ontario, burial and cremation are both means that would meet the requirement for disposal in a decent and dignified fashion.&nbsp; The deceased's father's action was dismissed. &nbsp;<br />
<br />
It is important to note that it was acknowledged that there is no property in a body.&nbsp; Therefore, any instructions left by the deceased, whether in a Will or otherwise are only precatory and are not binding on the estate trustee.<br />
<br />
Rick Bickhram</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/10/articles/topics/estate-trust/the-duty-to-dispose-of-the-body/</link>
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<category>Body</category><category>Dispose</category><category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Hull &amp; Hull LLP</category><category>Remain</category><category>Rick Bickhram</category><category>Trust</category><category>duty</category><category>estate</category><category>estate trustee</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<title>Unduly Influenced Not to Make a Will?</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I recently attended a breakfast seminar hosted by Hull &amp; Hull LLP, where I listened to my colleague, Natalia Angelini, speak about a testator's capacity to give instructions for the preparation of a Will.&nbsp; &nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />
During Natalia's discussion, she spoke about the varying levels of capacity for different transactions.&nbsp; Natalia also touched on the traditional grounds that a Will could be challenged.&nbsp;&nbsp; I was particularly intrigued to learn that the circumstances surrounding the failure of a testator to make a will could be advanced as forming the basis for a will challenge. &nbsp;</p>
<p>One of the traditional grounds for a will challenge is undue influence.&nbsp; At its very basic form, undue influence occurs as a result of pressure brought to bear on the testator in giving instructions and executing the testamentary document.&nbsp; The pressure brought on the testator, must be of such a degree that the testator has reached the point of thinking, &quot;It is not my wish, but I must do it&quot;.<br />
<br />
In contrast, &quot;reverse&quot; undue influence (as it has been called) occurs where a testator is being prevented from signing a Will. <br />
<br />
As this interesting topic continues to evolve, I am confident that the estate &amp; trust bar will be looking on with interest.</p>
<p>Rick Bickhram<br />
<br />
&nbsp;</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/10/articles/topics/estate-trust/unduly-influenced-not-to-make-a-will/</link>
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<category>Bickhram</category><category>Challenge</category><category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Influence</category><category>LLP</category><category>Rick</category><category>Trust</category><category>Undue</category><category>estate</category><category>hull</category><category>will</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<item>
<title>Has Heath Ledger&apos;s Estate Been Settled?</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>You may remember that my colleague, Chris Graham, blogged on the death of the actor, Heath Ledger and the pending litigation involving his estate (<a href="http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/03/articles/topics/new-media-observations/battle-brewing-over-heath-ledger-estate/">Link to Chris Graham's Blog</a>).&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
<p>It has been well reported that Ledger last&nbsp;made a Will in 2003, before the birth of his daughter Matilda (in 2005) and before his claim to fame.&nbsp; Under the 2003 Will, Ledger left all of his possessions to his parents and sister.&nbsp; He subsequently stared in several hit films which vastly increased the size of his net value.&nbsp; Subsequent to his passing, the question that was considered was what would happen to Matilda, as she was not provided for in the 2003 Will?&nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
<p>There had been discussion that Matilda's mother would likely commence a claim on Ledger's estate, which could have tied up the Estate in litigation for years. However, now it is widely reported that Ledger's entire estate will all go to two year old Matilda (<a href="http://www.theinsider.com/news_event/1225342_Heath_Ledger_s_Matilda_to_get_his_estate">click here for the report</a>). &nbsp;</p>
<p>Estate planning is like doing our taxes.&nbsp; No one wants to do them, but Ledger's story teaches us an important lesson.&nbsp; It reminds us of the uncertainty of death and the consequential need to ensure that our estate plans are updated to protect those that we care for. &nbsp;</p>
<p>Rick Bickhram<br />
<br />
&nbsp;</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/10/articles/topics/estate-trust/has-heath-ledgers-estate-been-settled/</link>
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<category>Bickhram</category><category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Heath</category><category>Hull and Hull</category><category>Ledger</category><category>Rick</category><category>Trust</category><category>and</category><category>estate</category><category>estate plan</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<item>
<title>Variation of Trust - The Deed of Arrangement</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Today&rsquo;s blog is a continuation of my blogs this week on the variation of a trust under the Variation of Trusts Act and will focus on the Deed of Arrangement.&nbsp;</p>
<p>The approach to, and content of, the Deed of Arrangement will most certainly depend on the circumstances involved. The approach to the Deed of Arrangement may be quite different if the variation arises as a result of an ongoing proceeding (and has been negotiated as part of that proceeding conditional on Court approval) than if it does not.<br />
&nbsp;</p>]]><![CDATA[<p>A Deed of Arrangement typically names and is signed by all capacitated beneficiaries. These beneficiaries are usually identified and grouped according to their interest in the trust. The trustee is also usually identified and is a signatory of the Deed of Arrangement as the trustee consents to act under the varied trust. Incapacitated beneficiaries are not typically named as parties to the Deed of Arrangement as the Court is approving the variation on their behalf.</p>
<p>A Deed of Arrangement may (depending on the provision and as necessary) also contain (the following are not meant to be exhaustive) (i) recitals which provide background on the trust, the parties, trustee, potential beneficiaries and provisions of the trust including, as necessary, the term in the trust that is being varied, (ii) a paragraph that the Deed of Arrangement is subject to Court approval on behalf of the incapacitated beneficiary(ies), (iii) paragraphs setting out the variation, with the paragraph number of where the paragraph fits into the trust and indicating how the paragraph fits into the trust, (iv) paragraphs addressing, if applicable, any action that is required as part of the variation, (v) a paragraph allowing for the Deed of Arrangement to be signed in counterpart if there are numerous parties, (vi) a paragraph addressing the payment of the costs of the preparation of the Deed of Arrangement and the Application, and (vii) a paragraph addressing the legal advice obtained.</p>
<p>Thanks for reading, Craig<br />
&nbsp;</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/10/articles/topics/estate-trust/variation-of-trust-the-deed-of-arrangement/</link>
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<category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Litigation</category><category>Trust</category><category>Trusts</category><category>Variation</category><category>estate</category><category>of</category>
<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:01:01 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<item>
<title>Sleepless Nights</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Here&rsquo;s a story from <a href="http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/city/story.html?id=8d5669d2-043f-4f9d-93a8-f8f14d773d99">Calgary </a>that will make every lawyer tremble documenting the conviction of a mother of three, and assistant at a law firm, for misappropriating $1.4 million from the firm&rsquo;s trust account.</p>
<p>A great reminder of the need to restrict access to a trust account and exercise vigilance in who can access it.&nbsp;Of course, in the hustle and bustle of practice it is possible for these types of basics to fall to the background as we try to satisfy clients with the outcomes of their cases.</p>
<p>Most lawyers I know operate on the assumption that everything which leaves their office, including trust cheques, is their responsibility.&nbsp;Since not everything in every case can always be reviewed, that implies a certain amount of trust towards assistants, clerks, and other support staff.&nbsp;It also implies that it is very wise to know the people that work for you, and consciously keep up with them from time to time.</p>
<p>Nothing will protect from every rogue of course, but you never know what you might find out by staying on top of things&hellip;</p>
<p>Thanks for reading.</p>
<p>Sean Graham</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/09/articles/topics/ethical-issues/sleepless-nights/</link>
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<category>Ethical Issues</category><category>Misappropriation</category><category>Trust</category><category>assistants</category><category>clerks</category><category>staff</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:52:06 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<item>
<title>Deductions from Compensation - Hull on Estates and Succession Planning Podcast #125</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Listen to <a href="http://media.libsyn.com/media/ian/HOESP_125_FINAL.mp3">Deductions from Compensation.</a></p>
<p>This week on Hull on Estates and Succession Planning, Ian and Suzana finish up the discussion on the question of accounting by reviewing deductions from compensation and briefly sum up the procedure of the passing of accounts.</p>
<p>Comments? Send us an email at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com">hullandhull@gmail.com</a>, call us on the comment line at 206-457-1985, or leave us a comment on the <a href="http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/">Hull on Estate and Succession Planning blog</a>.</p>]]><![CDATA[<p>
<p style="background: rgb(203, 202, 152) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; text-align: justify; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><span style="font-size: 17pt; color: rgb(50, 60, 60);">Deductions from Compensation - <a title="Permalink for Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #20 - Claims against the Estate" href="http://www.hullandhull.com/podcast/?p=139"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration: none;">Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #125 </span></a></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Posted on August 12, 2008 by <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/who_we_are.html">Hull &amp; Hull LLP</a></span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Hi, and welcome to Hull on Estate and Succession Planning.&nbsp;You&rsquo;re listening to Episode #125 of our podcast on Tuesday, August 12<sup>th</sup>, 2008.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Welcome to Hull on Estate and Succession Planning, a series of podcasts hosted by Ian Hull and Suzana Popovic-Montag, that will provide information and insights into estate planning in Canada.&nbsp;From the offices of Hull Estate Mediation in Toronto,  Ontario, Canada, here are Ian and Suzana.</span></i></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Hi there, Ian.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> &nbsp;Hi, Suzana.&nbsp;How are you doing?</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;I&rsquo;m good thank you, how are you?</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Just great.&nbsp;We&rsquo;re having some fun with this whole question of accounting, and I think I&rsquo;ve done the numbers, and I think we&rsquo;re almost done.&nbsp;But before we go through our podcast today, let&rsquo;s remind everyone, please feel free to call in on our call-in number and our call-in number is of course, 206-457-1985.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Or send us an e-mail at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">hullandhull@gmail.com</span></a> or of course, you can visit our blog at estatelaw.hullandhull.com as well.&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;So before we launch into the substantive podcast today, I just wanted to do a couple of things.&nbsp;One, I want to deal with an e-mail that came in and another is I want to just welcome people to listen and look at the, last week we enjoyed Jordan Atin who is our associate counsel here, our Senior Associate Counsel, and he was on Canada AM for four days in a row talking about family feuds and the link to the webpage where CTV is still running the streaming is worth looking at, and we&rsquo;ll make sure that&rsquo;s in our show notes. &nbsp;But Jordan had a great opportunity to talk about family feuds and sort of the issues that arise out of his book, &ldquo;The Family War&rdquo; which is co-written by Les Kotzer and of course, my good friend, Barry Fish.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Alright, so we were talking about some of the e-mails.&nbsp;And we had two e-mails last week come in. Both of them were semi-related and so I&rsquo;m sort of going to merge the two of them together.&nbsp;And the question really comes down to this: &nbsp;What are we talking about with The Shoebox Effect?&nbsp;And what we&rsquo;ve been mentioning in the past and what we&rsquo;re going to talk a little bit about today, because part of our wind-up is the importance of vouchers, is The Shoebox Effect is this.&nbsp;When you are a trustee, no matter what you think, no matter what you do, you will be someday possibly asked to show your receipts and that&rsquo;s all I&rsquo;m saying The Shoebox Effect is.&nbsp;Make sure you keep receipts, even if it&rsquo;s in a shoebox.&nbsp;Your lawyer or your accountant can work on the presentation of it when you ultimately have to go to Court, but keep the receipts.&nbsp;So that was the two questions that came in, actually, both were from different parts of Canada but asking about the same question.&nbsp;So I&rsquo;m not going to dwell on it other than that and say that when we&rsquo;re winding up our comments on accounting, please, please, please keep your receipts if you&rsquo;re a fiduciary.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;And just to add one thought to that, Ian, I would also suggest that it&rsquo;s really helpful to make sure that you document as much as possible everything that you do as a trustee. &nbsp;And when it comes to exercising your discretion, and if particularly the Will or the trust document allows you to have a broad discretion, to write down your thoughts or your reasoning or the underlying reasons that you decided to do something or not do something and include that in the shoebox that you end up bringing to a lawyer one day possibly.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;That&rsquo;s a great suggestion and it comes down to, when we&rsquo;re talking about getting paid for all of these efforts, the deductions from compensation that we briefly talked about in the last podcasts, what can you look to?&nbsp;So we talked about that you can get paid, say approximately 5% as a tariff, so to speak. &nbsp;And we&rsquo;ve talked about some of the things we&rsquo;re going to knock you out from, but one of the easy deductions is the delineation between the executor&rsquo;s work and lawyer&rsquo;s work or accountant&rsquo;s work.&nbsp;And that ties into your comment, Suzana, on docketing, keeping records beyond just the receipts that I talked about.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;And things for instance, like the preparation of tax returns, when fees are associated with that, depending on who&rsquo;s preparing the tax returns and how much those fees are, that&rsquo;s another thing that might possibly be a deduction from compensation if the trustee for instance is an accountant.&nbsp;And these are situations where a trustee is an accountant or a lawyer that you see most often, where these issues can arise.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Alright, so another concern that we raise and probably the last deduction from compensation we&rsquo;ll just mention now, is this whole idea of pre-taking compensation.&nbsp;Under Ontario legislation, if you&rsquo;re a fiduciary or, as I say, a guardian under the <i>Substitute Decisions Act</i>, they actually allow you to pre-take your compensation, take before you&rsquo;ve made your efforts.&nbsp;But we&rsquo;ve talked about in the past the cases, and we&rsquo;ve talked about them in the show notes as well, the case law that talks about <i>Re: Knoch</i> which we talked about in our previous podcast and others, and we want to be very, very careful about pre-taking, getting paid before you&rsquo;ve done your work.&nbsp;So that&rsquo;s an easy deduction.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Ian, just a question that I find often gets asked is whether or not GST is actually payable on executor&rsquo;s compensation.&nbsp;What are your thoughts about that?</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Well, that&rsquo;s a great question and it&rsquo;s a murky area of the law. &nbsp;And what has happened in the past is you would typically have to look at it case by case.&nbsp;First and foremost, you have to look at the amount of the payment that the compensation is.&nbsp;If it is over $30,000 that you&rsquo;re being paid in compensation, which could be the case because it&rsquo;s typically a one-time payment, you may have to pay GST on that income as having rendered services.&nbsp;So it&rsquo;s really case-by-case.&nbsp;Talk to your accountant, get good advice before you wrap up that issue, but that&rsquo;s an excellent question and a really important heads-up for people who are accounting and doing compensation work.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Okay, I think we&rsquo;ve pretty well covered off our accounting in the in-depth form and so we wanted to make sure that we stayed the course and came full circle to our sort of checklist that we&rsquo;re trying to work through.&nbsp;And one of the things I will say is we&rsquo;re hopefully going to be changing our format and trying to pick up a video feed for our podcasts which is in the process.&nbsp;Some technology glitches haven&rsquo;t allowed for it to fall in just yet, but we&rsquo;re going to be moving into some different topic areas.&nbsp;But one of the topic areas that we have to, I think, just sort of at least wrap up in a minimum way, is the process itself.&nbsp;We&rsquo;ve talked about the passing of accounts process but let&rsquo;s talk about the physical steps that are taken because many people don&rsquo;t understand passing of accounts and what you can expect in the courtroom once we&rsquo;ve got the Court format accounts. &nbsp;And my introduction to this, by way of the fact that we&rsquo;re going to be moving this into an audio, is that we&rsquo;re going to have our own mini-series on this issue, where we&rsquo;re really going to flush out these topics. &nbsp;But I think its worthwhile talking about them briefly now, so that people understand what they&rsquo;re going to get themselves into once they&rsquo;ve got these beautifully created Court format accounts.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;And procedurally speaking, certainly here in Ontario, the Rules of Civil Procedure will govern what is included in an Application to pass the Court format accounts.&nbsp;And we started when, before we got into this discussion of how we would audit estate accounts or how to prepare a best kind of set of accounts in the circumstances, we talked about the fact that it&rsquo;s all part of an application process. &nbsp;And so there will be an actual Court date that&rsquo;s assigned to the hearing for the return of the executor&rsquo;s accounts, and you&rsquo;ll serve a Notice of that application on all the beneficiaries together with, in many circumstances and many situations, a copy of the accounts as well.&nbsp;And the Rules themselves specifically provide what has to be in this Application record and I thought, Ian, it might be good to just sort of flush out some of those specific requirements.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Alright.&nbsp;Well I think and it&rsquo;s helpful because it&rsquo;s not quite as daunting when you get the document itself thrown at you because, as I say, a lot of these accounts are passed in a non-contentious environment. &nbsp;But it&rsquo;s legal mumbo-jumbo to some people so you want to make sure you sort of know what you&rsquo;re getting yourselves into when you get it.&nbsp;And the main document behind the accounts is the Affidavit verifying the accounts, they&rsquo;re proving that you&rsquo;re swearing to the truth of the accounts, and that&rsquo;s the fiduciary sort of statement that says these accounts are true and accurate.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;And that Affidavit, as I say, is included in the record that is served upon everyone who has a financial interest in the estate.&nbsp;And financial interest in the estate I think we&rsquo;ve talked about on previous podcasts, has a very broad meaning in the sense that even people with a contingent interest in an estate will be served with the accounts as well.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;And talking about service, we don&rsquo;t want to forget that there may be government agencies that we have to serve, of course; the Office of the Children&rsquo;s Lawyer should there be any minor child&rsquo;s interests, or interests of those who are unborn and unascertained. &nbsp;And without getting too technical about it, we just want to look at the trust document or the Will and see if there is a trust.&nbsp;And typically if there&rsquo;s a trust, more often than not, almost certainly in fact, the Children&rsquo;s Lawyer would be served, that&rsquo;s the Office of the Children&rsquo;s Lawyer. &nbsp;And it&rsquo;s different in each Ontario jurisdiction, but basically the lawyer in charge of minor interests.&nbsp;Another person to be concerned about serving is </span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;the Public Guardian and Trustee.&nbsp;That office would be served on behalf of any incapable beneficiaries of the estate.&nbsp;And so just like the Children&rsquo;s Lawyer protects the minor, the unborn or the unascertained, the Public Guardian and Trustee here in Ontario will represent those incapable beneficiaries.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;So those are just things to keep a heads-up on so that you don&rsquo;t get out of the box and miss a page of the application process by not putting important entities on notice.&nbsp;Obviously, we come back to our cardinal rule:&nbsp;Read the document, read the Will, read the trust and make sure you&rsquo;ve served everyone named in that, but the Public Guardian and Trustee and the Office of the Children&rsquo;s Lawyer, are two entities that aren&rsquo;t necessarily named and quite often aren&rsquo;t named, so just a heads-up.&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt;">So I think that gives you sort of a sense of what the document itself, in a friendly environment will be, so I think we&rsquo;ll wrap up today&rsquo;s podcast and again reminding you, please feel free to e-mail at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">hullandhull, h u l l a n d h u l l @gmail.com</span></a>.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Suzana Popovic-Montag:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Or feel free to call and leave us an audio comment at 206-457-1985.&nbsp;Thanks very much, Ian.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ian Hull:</span></i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">&nbsp;Thanks, Suzana.</span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">You&rsquo;ve been listening to Hull on Estate and Succession Planning with Ian Hull and Suzana Popovic-Montag.&nbsp;The podcast you have been listening to has been provided as an information service.&nbsp;It is a summary of current legal issues in estates and estate planning.&nbsp;It is not legal advice and you are reminded to always talk with a legal professional regarding your specific circumstances.</span></i></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">To listen to other Hull On podcasts, or to leave a question or comment, please visit our website at <a href="http://www.hullestatemediation.com/">www.hullestatemediation.com</a>.</span></i></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Our theme music is UpTempo14 by Gary and is courtesy of the Podsafe Music Network.</span></i></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt;">/mem</span></p>
</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/08/articles/podcasts-audio/deductions-from-compensation-hull-on-estates-and-succession-planning-podcast-125/</link>
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<category> PODCASTS / AUDIO</category><category>Compensation</category><category>GST</category><category>Hull on Estate and Succession Planning</category><category>Passing of Accounts</category><category>Procedure</category><category>The Shoebox Effect</category><category>Trust</category><category>accounting</category><category>affidavit</category><category>documentation</category><category>family feuds</category><category>fiduciary</category><category>government agencies</category><category>guardian</category><category>minors</category><category>pre-taking</category><category>receipts</category><category>records</category><category>services</category><category>the family war</category><category>vouchers</category><category>will</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:10:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>
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<title>Who Has Standing to Bring a Will Challenge?</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>As I am sipping on my coffee this morning, I am thinking to myself, who can commence a will challenge?&nbsp;</p>
<p>A will challenge can be commenced pursuant to 75.06(1) of the <em><a href="http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?language=en&amp;searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&amp;path=/on/laws/regu/1990r.194/20080716/whole.html">Rules of Civil Procedure</a></em>.&nbsp;Rule 75.06(1) is a procedural remedy that permits any person who appears to have a financial interest in an estate to apply for directions or move for directions in another proceeding.<span>&nbsp;&nbsp; This begs the question, who is considered to have a financial interest in an estate?&nbsp;This issue was addressed in the Ontario Superior Court (Divisional Court) decision of <em>Smith v. Vance</em>.</span></p>
<p>In <em>Smith</em>, the Deceased died on October 27, 1995, leaving a will dated January 5, 1994 which named the applicants as the estate trustees.<span>&nbsp;&nbsp; A notice of objection was filed by three individuals who were cousins of the deceased through marriage.&nbsp;The objection was subsequently struck by the Honourable Justice Perras during the motion for directions on the grounds that the objectors did not have a financial interest in the subject-Estate.&nbsp;In this hearing, the objectors appealed this decision. </span></p>
<p>The objectors asserted their financial interest in the Estate based on their close relationship with and their physical and financial assistance for the deceased.&nbsp;There was also an earlier destroyed will in which the objectors were named beneficiaries.&nbsp;Finally a letter was allegedly written by the deceased wherein she acknowledged that the objector will have an interest in her estate. </p>
<p>The court acknowledged that a financial interest is not defined in the Rules of Civil Procedure.&nbsp;In such cases, words should be taken by its natural meaning.&nbsp;Black's legal dictionary defines financial interest as an interest equated with money or its equivalent.&nbsp;The court held that&nbsp;claimants must do more than simply assert an interest.&nbsp;They must present sufficient evidence of a genuine interest and meet a threshold test to justify inclusion as a party.&nbsp;The interest need not be conclusive evidence at that stage but must be evidence capable of supporting an inference that the claim is one that should be heard.&nbsp;</p>
<p>If the evidence offered by an objector is capable of supporting an inference that the claim raises a genuine issue, and thus is one that should be heard, the objector is entitled to standing and should be granted permission to be added as a party.&nbsp;The appeal was allowed and the order by the Honourable Justice Perras was set aside. </p>
<p>I hope you had fun reading today's blog.&nbsp;Until tomorrow, </p>
<p>Rick Bickhram</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/08/articles/topics/estate-trust/who-has-standing-to-bring-a-will-challenge/</link>
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<category>Bickhram</category><category>Challenge</category><category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Financial</category><category>LLP</category><category>Rick</category><category>Smith</category><category>Trust</category><category>Vance</category><category>and</category><category>estate</category><category>hull</category><category>interest</category><category>will</category>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 04:00:01 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

</item>
<item>
<title>The Question of Compensation and Complaints - Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #123</title>
<description><![CDATA[Listen to <a href="http://media.libsyn.com/media/ian/HOESP_123_FINALtag.mp3">The Question of Compensation and Complaints</a>.
<p>This week on Hull on Estates and Succession Planning, Ian and Suzana discuss the question of compensation and complaints regarding compensation.</p>
<p>Comments? Send us an email at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com">hullandhull@gmail.com</a>, call us on the comment line at 206-457-1985, or leave us a comment on the <a href="http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/">Hull on Estate and Succession Planning blog</a>.</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/07/articles/podcasts-audio/the-question-of-compensation-and-complaints-hull-on-estate-and-succession-planning-podcast-123/</link>
<guid isPermaLink="false">http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/07/articles/podcasts-audio/the-question-of-compensation-and-complaints-hull-on-estate-and-succession-planning-podcast-123/</guid>
<category> PODCASTS / AUDIO</category><category>Compensation</category><category>Court of Appeal</category><category>Hull and Hull</category><category>Hull on Estate and Succession Planning</category><category>Passing of Accounts</category><category>Suzana Popovic-Montag</category><category>Trust</category><category>administration</category><category>benchmark</category><category>capacity</category><category>capitol estates</category><category>care and management fees</category><category>common-law rule</category><category>compensation claims</category><category>complaints</category><category>estate</category><category>estate law</category><category>executor</category><category>ian hull</category><category>incapable</category><category>law podcast</category><category>pre-take compensation</category><category>tariff amount</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:10:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>
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<title>OBA Trusts and Estates Section Executive</title>
<description><![CDATA[In yesterday&rsquo;s blog, I mentioned that the election of the Ontario Bar Association (OBA), Trusts and Estates Section Executive for the year 2008-2009 was confirmed at the Sections&rsquo; year end dinner on May 27, 2008. <br />
<br />
Kimberly Whaley is the incoming Chair of the Executive with Suzana Popovic-Montag as Vice-Chair. The balance of the slate is as follows: <br />
<br />
Past-Chair: Jordan Atin <br />
Secretary: Craig Vander Zee <br />
<br />
Members-at-Large: Ann Elise Alexander, Robert Coates, Vincent De Angelis, Shael Eisen, Ed Esposto, Jan Goddard, Eric Hoffstein, Danielle Joel, Sean Lawler, Mitchell Leitman, Helena Likwornik, Jane Martin, Joanna Ringrose, Liza Sheard, Susan Stamm, Dina Stigas, Sender Tator, Mary Wahbi, Laura West and Melanie Yach. <br />
<br />
I look forward to again working on the Executive and having a successful year. <br />
<br />
Before turning the page on this past year, though, I would like to sincerely thank Jordan Atin for all of his efforts, hard work and counsel as the Chair of the Executive. <br />
<br />
Have a nice day. <br />
<br />
Craig <br />]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/06/articles/podcasts-audio/hull-on-estates/oba-trusts-and-estates-section-executive/</link>
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<category>Hull on Estates</category><category>Litigation</category><category>Trust</category><category>blogs</category><category>estates</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:01:34 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

</item>
<item>
<title>Issues in Estate Administration: Tax Filing - Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #110</title>
<description><![CDATA[Listen to <a href="http://media.libsyn.com/media/ian/HOESP_110_FINAL.mp3">Issues in Estate Administration: Tax Filing</a>.<br />
<br />
This week on Hull on Estate and Succession Planning, Ian and Suzana discuss tax issues surrounding the administration of an estate. <br />
<br />
Comments? Send us an email at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com">hullandhull@gmail.com</a>, call us on the comment line at 206-457-1985, or leave us a comment on the <a href="http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com">Hull on Estates and Succession Planning blog</a>.]]><![CDATA[<p style="background: rgb(203, 202, 152) none repeat scroll 0%; text-align: justify; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 17pt; color: rgb(50, 60, 60);">Issues in Estate Administration: Tax Filing - <a title="Permalink for Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #20 - Claims against the Estate" href="http://www.hullandhull.com/podcast/?p=139"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration: none;">Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #110 </span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="author">Posted on April 29<sup>th</sup>, 2008 by <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/who_we_are.html">Hull &amp; Hull LLP</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag:<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Hi, and welcome to <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hull</st1:place></st1:city> on Estate and Succession Planning.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>You&rsquo;re listening to Episode #110 of our podcast on Tuesday, April 29<sup>th</sup>, 2008.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style="">Welcome to <st1:placetype w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hull</st1:place></st1:placetype> on Estate and Succession Planning, a series of podcasts hosted by<o:p></o:p></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style="">Ian Hull and Suzana Popovic-Montag, that will provide information and insights into estate planning in Canada, from the offices of Hull Estate Mediation in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Here are Ian and Suzana.<o:p></o:p></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: Hi it&rsquo;s Suzana Popovic-Montag.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: Ian Hull.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: And welcome to our podcast. We would just like to take this opportunity at the very beginning to remind you of the fact that we have a call in number for any of our listeners who have any comments on our podcast. Please feel free to call us at 206-457-1985.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: And also I encourage you to send us an e-mail at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com">hullandhull@gmail.com</a> or check out or daily blog which is easily found from our webpage at hullandhull.com.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Well let&rsquo;s start working through some issues on the estate administration.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: That&rsquo;s great Ian, we shall, but I just wanted to take a quick opportunity to let our listeners know that by the time this podcast is up, you will have done yet another appearance on a great show that&rsquo;s called &ldquo;Strictly Legal&rdquo;, that is hosted by Michael Cochrane and for people who are interested in hearing Ian speak about issues of Estate and Trust matters in a more general all encompassing fashion, I highly recommend you to that show.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: Well thanks Suzana, its fun, it&rsquo;s a great show. I&rsquo;m looking forward to it. It&rsquo;s thrown up on a video stream after on Business News Network, BNN Network so, it&rsquo;s good fun.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: Good for you Ian.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: Alright, so where we left off in our last podcast was we were still struggling through some tax stuff because it is tax time here in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>So we get a little focused on that and the easiest, I find, with files, the easiest criticism of any executor administering an estate is that they botched the tax filings or did any of the tax related stuff and so let&rsquo;s talk a little bit about that. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>But also let&rsquo;s talk about the fact that, you know, again, if you&rsquo;re not the expert in the tax side of things, get help.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: That&rsquo;s for sure. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: So we mentioned the T1 terminal income tax return which is due and then we talked a little about how you dovetail in an interim distribution encouraging the party, the executors, I try to encourage my client, the executors. to get the money flowing as quickly as possible, knowing the restrictions that are out there, because there are some, we can&rsquo;t just simply send it out. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>But as soon as is safe, send it out with sufficient holdback. One of the reasons for the holdback is, of course, we have to pay taxes.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: And in addition to the T1 terminal return an estate trustee is going to prepare annually a T3 estate tax return.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: And that&rsquo;s on estates that are not immediately distributable, so that if the assets are generating income, or there is a trust that is ongoing, or you just didn&rsquo;t get it filed, the estate administered in the first year, Revenue <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region> still wants their tax money on those, on the interest income or the growth and so forth. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>So our annual T3 estate return needs to be filed, and that is approximately, again you can expect a Notice of Assessment<span style="">&nbsp; </span>approximately six to nine months after that.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: One of the other things that we suggest to our clients to keep in mind after these tax returns have been taken care of, is to consider and to confirm that all CPP death benefits, that&rsquo;s the Canada Pension Plan death benefits, have in fact been received on behalf of the estate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: And also here in <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ontario</st1:place></st1:state>, we are forced to consider the issue of additional estate administration tax being paid. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>And on this point, I was in Court the other day, not a case that I was involved with, but I was watching and I noticed that there was some argument between the government of <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ontario</st1:place></st1:state> and a big, it looked like a big estate, I didn&rsquo;t follow all the details, but they were arguing over a refund.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>The estate had, in fact, filed, and it turned out they had overpaid, they just basically overestimated the value of a big, big property, paid tax on it, the administration tax on it and then were now going back to the Court to work out a mechanism to get a repayment.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>So, as is in life, possession is nine- tenths of the law. It reminded me of the adage that, you know, its always better to be conservative when you are making the filings, on the estate administration tax side because it can be more difficult<span style="">&nbsp; </span>to get the money back than it can be to pay the money. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>But obviously always being honest throughout the process.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: That&rsquo;s good advice, Ian.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: I think really at this point, I just want to take a deep breath and look back at what we are doing because, and this is where some clients, we meet some resistance from clients because they sort of see us as trying to cover off too much sometimes. But I really, I often at this point will sit down and prepare a comprehensive reporting letter. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>From our standpoint, for sure, we will report throughout. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>But this is a good time also for the beneficiaries to receive something in writing directly from the executor.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>There is nothing like personal contact, ongoing phone calls is a great idea as well.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Just keeping people up to date, keeping the process personal. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>Because this is personal, this isn&rsquo;t a business transaction, this is a life transaction.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>So I always encourage my clients who are executors to pick up the phone or grab a coffee with some of the beneficiaries or even have an informal meeting with them at the local coffee shop.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>But most importantly, I also suggest to them that they prepare a reporting letter.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: That is really good advice, Ian because it gives people then an opportunity to sort of see in writing all the hard work that you have done as an executor and the benefit of that, of course, being at the end of the day, when you want to seek compensation for your work as an estate trustee, you will have something to point the beneficiaries to in terms of the work and the hard effort that you have put forward in administering the estate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: And it really is, it is not just self-serving, I think it is a natural reaction for people to, who feel that they are in the dark, no matter what you are dealing with, in business or, and in this case what is often a family situation. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>Dialogue and communication is so crucial and so the more, the better.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: And then just sort of to wrap up the tax discussion that we had we want to turn our minds to the final income tax return and the preparation of that final T3, and then, of course, applying for the final Clearance Certificate in order to give the sort of seal of approval to all the tax filings that have been done to the estate trustee on behalf of the estate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: Okay, so let&rsquo;s talk this through a little bit because this is really the final bell for the tax filings, and this final T3 return and the final Clearance Certificate application is so important. Again, I typically will tell my clients unless they are the tax experts that I am not, make sure you send everything to the accountant.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>This is the last chance to have sent all of the paper that you think might possibly relate to any of the assets of the estate to the accountant, let them decide what needs to be put to the taxing authority, not you.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: And then, of course, file the return, pay any taxes owing and just make note of the fact that you want to follow up the actual receipt of the Notice of Assessment for that final T3 return and typically that will come in about six to nine months.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: And then, of course, we have the second step and that is, of course, we will be looking for a Clearance Certificate.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>But one of the things that people talk about, and without getting overly technical on the tax side, is what do you do when you want to wind up an estate because interest is always going to be accumulating?<span style="">&nbsp; </span>And there is an easy answer, again not for my abilities to follow through on the mechanics, but the concept that: say there is a $100,000 left in the bank and you are holding that back to get your Clearance Certificate from CRA. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>You filed your final T3 return, everything is really ready to go but there is this one remaining amount of money that is being held back because the accountant said look, you know what, this is a busy account and this individual did a lot of transactions over his lifetime and CRA could always come back and look, and that final look at the Clearance Certificate time, because we have to remember CRA, that&rsquo;s the last kick they are going to get at it too. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>So they typically take a pretty good, careful look at all of the tax activity of the deceased at that time.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>But what you can do is, you can allocate the interest income that is being accumulated on the stop date. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>So you, say you have some money left, you want to stop the estate, basically stop the clock running, so that you can indeed say it is over to Revenue <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>The go forward income accumulation just gets allocated to the beneficiaries. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>And as I say, there are certain forms that get filed with the Revenue Canada and so forth to make that happen.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>But it is an important step to allow you to bring close to the ongoing treadmill of interest income that is going to be coming in on the money you are holding.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: And that is a really good point to address in the letter that you write to the beneficiaries reporting on the administration of the estate and reminding them that at that point, that stop clock date or whatever you want to call it, at that point forward they have an annual obligation to themselves report that income and pay tax on it.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: And so now we are looking for that Clearance Certificate. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>And even if that, as I say, the final distribution hasn&rsquo;t been made, so you write a letter to CRA, you wait typically, it&rsquo;s difficult to guess, it might be six to nine months, it might be more depending on the circumstances. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>And once you receive that final Clearance Certificate you can send out your final distribution.<span style="">&nbsp; </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now one little twist, just as a final comment on the tax side is, is that you want also, I remind my clients to look at whether or not the deceased was a G.S.T. participant or registrant, because there can be special filings that need to be undertaken for that, and make sure that that&rsquo;s been closed.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>So your loop is closed fully on the tax side, you&rsquo;ve diarized them and then in our next podcast, we are going to talk a little bit about the accounting obligations, not from the standpoint of the government, which we have gone through, it&rsquo;s going to be hopefully no more tax time once we get in our next podcast, we are going to move into the accounting obligation as between the executor and the beneficiaries. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: <span style="">&nbsp;</span>Well that is great, Ian.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Thanks very much. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>I look forward to our next podcast.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>And just a reminder again for anyone who has any comments about our podcast, please feel free to call us at 206-457-1985 or send us an e-mail at <a href="mailto:hullandhull@gmail.com">hullandhull@gmail.com</a> or, of course, visit our blog and our webpage at estatelaw.hullandhull.com. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ian Hull: Thanks Suzana. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suzana Popovic-Montag: Thanks Ian.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style="">You&rsquo;ve been listening to <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hull</st1:place></st1:city> on Estate and Succession Planning with Ian Hull and Suzana Popovic-Montag.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>The podcast you have been listening to has been provided as an information service.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>It is a summary of current legal issues in estates and estate planning.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>It is not legal advice and you are reminded to always talk with a legal professional regarding your specific circumstances.<o:p></o:p></em></p>
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<category> PODCASTS / AUDIO</category><category>BNN</category><category>CPP</category><category>CPP death benefits</category><category>Estate Law Podcasts</category><category>GST</category><category>GST registrant</category><category>Hull on Estate and Succession Planning</category><category>Michael Cochrane</category><category>T1</category><category>T3</category><category>Tax Return</category><category>Trust</category><category>accountant</category><category>annual</category><category>communications</category><category>estate law</category><category>estate tax return</category><category>final distribution</category><category>law podcast</category><category>reporting letter</category><category>stop date</category><category>strictly legal</category><category>taxes</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:10:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>
<enclosure url="http://media.libsyn.com/media/ian/HOESP_110_FINAL.mp3" length="12406326" type="audio/mpeg" />
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<title>Alter Ego Trusts - Hull on Estates #107</title>
<description><![CDATA[Listen to <a href="http://media.libsyn.com/media/kirsten/HOE_107_FINAL.mp3">Alter Ego Trusts</a>.<br />
<br />
This week on Hull on Estates, Natalia and Chris discuss what Alter Ego Trusts are and the pros and cons of using Alter Ego Trusts.<br />
<br />
Comments? Send us an email at <a href="mailto:hull.laywers@gmail.com">hull.lawyers@gmail.com</a>, call us on the comment line at 206-350-6636, or leave us a comment on the <a href="http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/">Hull on Estates blog.</a><br />
<br />
<br />]]><![CDATA[<p style="background: rgb(203, 202, 152) none repeat scroll 0%; text-align: justify; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 17pt; color: rgb(50, 60, 60);">Alter Ego Trusts - <a title="Permalink for Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #20 - Claims against the Estate" href="http://www.hullandhull.com/podcast/?p=139"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); text-decoration: none;">Hull on Estates Podcast #107 </span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="author"><span lang="EN-CA">Posted on April 22<sup>nd</sup>, 2008 by <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/who_we_are.html">Hull &amp; Hull LLP</a></span></span><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Hello and welcome to <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hull</st1:place></st1:city> on Estates. You&rsquo;re listening to Episode #107 on Tuesday, April 22<sup>nd</sup>, 2008.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA">Welcome to <st1:city w:st="on">Hull</st1:city> on Estates, a series of podcasts for the Canadian legal community dealing with issues and insights surrounding estate planning in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Canada</st1:country-region></st1:place>.<span style="">&nbsp; </span><span style="">&nbsp;</span>Hosted by the lawyers of <st1:city w:st="on">Hull</st1:city> &amp; <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Hull</st1:city></st1:place>, the podcast will touch on some key considerations when planning estates and Wills.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>Now, here are today&rsquo;s hosts.<o:p></o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Hi and welcome to another episode of <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Hull</st1:place></st1:city> on Estates. I&rsquo;m Natalia Angelini.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: And I&rsquo;m Chris Graham.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: So Chris, welcome today. We&rsquo;ve never podcasted before although it feels like we have.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: Many times Natalia, but I&rsquo;m sure it will be a pleasure.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><br />
Natalia Angelini: Yes I think it will and today we&rsquo;re talking about a subject that is quite interesting. We&rsquo;re going to cover the issue of alter ego trusts. Now alter ego trusts are a newer instrument and it&rsquo;s a type of trust that satisfies certain requirements under the <em style="">Income Tax Act</em> and which are defined in Section 248 of the <em style="">Income Tax Act</em>. So perhaps I&rsquo;ll just start by setting out some of the requirements for an alter ego trust. Chris, you can feel free to jump in any time here. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">So this is the kind of trust that is really appropriate for an older person because the settlor has to be at least 65 years of age at the time the trust was created. And the trust must have been created after 1999. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>So it is, as I said, a newer type of trust instrument. The settlor also has to be able to receive all of the income of the trust that arises before his or her death and no one except the settlor may, before his or her death, receive or obtain the use of any income or capital of the trust. And I think finally the trust does not make an election referred to in the <em style="">Income Tax Act</em> and that&rsquo;s, for anyone who&rsquo;s interested, that&rsquo;s in sub-paragraph 104, sub 4a, sub 2.1 of the <em style="">Income Tax Act</em>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: That was a mouthful.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: That was a mouthful, I&rsquo;m sure we&rsquo;ll all be rushing to go look up the Section.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: Applies to pretty much any reference to the <em style="">Income Tax Act</em>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Exactly. So those are the requirements for an alter ego trust to exist and perhaps we can chit chat about some of its other elements.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: Yeah, I guess the first element that any lawyer will know, but people should also be aware of, is that a trust, including an alter ego trust, is a separate tax payer. For the purposes of paying taxes, it is its own person.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: That&rsquo;s right Chris, good point. What else makes the alter ego trust distinct?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: Well, the rule against perpetuities which non-lawyers call the 21 year rule, some lawyers do too, of course, better than me, does not apply to deferral of capital gains tax until the settlor dies or until the capital property is disposed of during the settlor&rsquo;s lifetime. So basically, if the settlor lives past age &ndash; say they create the trust at 65 and they live past age 86 which a lot of people are these days, well the rule against perpetuities in other trusts might kick in. It doesn&rsquo;t kick in to the alter ego trust. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Okay, so in short, what happens is that on the death of the settlor, there&rsquo;s a deemed disposition of the assets that are in the trust and capital gains taxes cannot be &ndash; they can&rsquo;t be set against the settlor&rsquo;s capital losses or capital losses in the trust can&rsquo;t be set against the settlor&rsquo;s capital gains. Since the trust is, it&rsquo;s an <em style="">inter vivos</em> trust which means during the lifetime of the settlor, gains will be subject to tax at the highest applicable marginal rate.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: And that&rsquo;s a good point and I think essentially income earned in the trust will be taxed as if the settlor earned it personally during his or her lifetime. So even though the 21 year rule does not apply, the trust can make an election under the <em style="">Income Tax Act </em>not to have a deemed disposition on the death of the settlor. So if that election is made, the 21 year rule will apply and there won&rsquo;t be a rollover with respect to transfer of assets into the trust. And I think there&rsquo;s one other element to an alter ego trust that we should cover.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: Yes, residence is a basic general rule, residence of the trustee will determine the residence of the trust, I think that&rsquo;s pretty much trite in most cases. However here&rsquo;s where the kicker comes in. If the trustee becomes a non-resident, the trust will also be deemed, in many situations, to have also ceased to be a resident of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region> and must therefore pay the deemed disposition of its assets. Now why does that matter? Well who makes these trusts? People at least 65 years of age, with a fair bit of money. What do most of those people do in the winter? They pack their bags, they&rsquo;re smart people, they avoid our winters. They go down to <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Florida</st1:place></st1:state>. And therein lies the risk of being deemed to have become a non-resident. We&rsquo;re not immigration lawyers, we&rsquo;re far from being experts in legal requirements of residency and what deemed rules are and when they kick in. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>But we do know there&rsquo;s something out there and if you create one of these trusts or you certainly have to keep this in mind and get some highly qualified advice.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Now I&rsquo;d like to cover some of the reasons that you would want to set up an alter ego trust because this is a kind of trust instrument that is, in my view, appropriate for a narrower scope of people and not as broad an audience as some other trust vehicles. I think its best when you&rsquo;re dealing with a really large estate because the best or what seems to be the best advantage to setting up an alter ego trust is avoiding probate tax. So if you&rsquo;ve got a large estate and you&rsquo;re potentially going to be paying significant sums in probate tax and those sums are .5% on the first $50,000.00 and 1.5% on the balance of the value of a person&rsquo;s estate. So those numbers can really add up. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">And one of the other great advantages of an alter ego trust is the privacy factor. The value of your assets are not made public. So if that&rsquo;s important to you, then that&rsquo;s one advantage of that vehicle. And something else that you can benefit from by creating an alter ego trust is creditor protection, because ownership of the asset is transferred to the trustee. However you&rsquo;ve got to be careful because if it&rsquo;s ultimately challenged and the purpose of the trust is found to have been set up to avoid or defeat creditors, then those assets can be clawed back and you won&rsquo;t be able to protect them against creditors.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: Absolutely, Natalia. Federal and provincial statutes, for instance, the <em style="">Fraudulent Conveyances Act</em> contain lots of very powerful ways that creditors can go after debtors who tried or purported to enter into transactions for the sole purpose of protecting assets from claims. That&rsquo;s something obviously you have to get expert advice on because it&rsquo;s a case by case basis and the statutes are complex and there&rsquo;s lots of case law and all the rest of it. But if you&rsquo;re looking to create an alter ego trust to defraud creditors or whatever, that&rsquo;s not something that they were really set up for.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: And I think one of the other advantages to setting up an alter ego trust is the prevention of litigation because it is more difficult to challenge the validity of an <em style="">inter vivos</em> trust than a Will, for instance. So that is something to be kept in mind.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: And one practical advantage of it, probably not really what this type of trust is designed to do, but if the settlor settles this trust, an alter ego trust, and then later becomes incapable, well that particular &ndash; the assets in the trust are self-administering. In other words, no one has to go to Court and initiate expensive and potentially contentious guardianship proceedings in order to deal with this property. You don&rsquo;t have to worry about &ldquo;oh my god, this person who&rsquo;s been running this company is suddenly out of the picture, what do we do? Everything&rsquo;s falling apart&rdquo;. No, it&rsquo;s taken care of, it&rsquo;s in trust, there&rsquo;s a trustee, these assets are well in hand and they&rsquo;re also being managed in accordance with a plan laid down by the settlor already.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: So I can&rsquo;t think of any other reasons for setting up a trust off the top of my head, so maybe we&rsquo;ll move to reasons that you might not want to set up an alter ego trust.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: One of the major reasons not to, is that when you put something into an alter ego trust or any trust, you lose control of that asset, it no longer belongs to you. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>And it never ceases to amaze me how many people who have set up estate freezes and what not, don&rsquo;t appreciate that fundamental point. It is no longer theirs when it goes into trust, whatever it is.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><br />
Natalia Angelini: That&rsquo;s right. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>So you certainly have to be mindful of that and if, on the other hand, you do appoint yourself as trustee being the settlor, you can retain some control but you&rsquo;ll forfeit your right to use the trust to reduce overall tax liabilities. So there&rsquo;s a pro and con to proceeding in that way as well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: This brings us back to what we were saying earlier about not being able to write off capital gains based on maybe the settlor&rsquo;s capital losses on death. There&rsquo;s also that aspect of tax planning, which is way beyond me.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: I&rsquo;ll leave that one alone. So onto &ndash; another reason that you might hesitate to set up an alter ego trust is naturally there&rsquo;s going to be legal costs and costs of obtaining tax advice. <span style="">&nbsp;</span>For instance, ongoing administration expenses, trustee fees and the cost of annual tax returns that need to be filed. So those are just some of the costs built in that, you know, may not be &ndash; some people may not be interested in incurring.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: I thought people liked paying their lawyers, their accountants, their dentists.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Yeah I don&rsquo;t think &ndash;</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: Their financial advisors.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: So I think we&rsquo;ve covered the nuts and bolts of an alter ego trust meaning what it is, what its elements are, the advantages and disadvantages of setting one up. And they certainly are, you know, a welcome edition to the tools available to people in planning their estates, particularly for the older client. However, the advantages of confidentiality and probate tax savings definitely needs to be weighed against the tax considerations and potential tax disadvantages to setting up the trust.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: It is a state-of-the-art statutory trust and as such, contained in the <em style="">Income Tax Act</em>, and as such it has a broad variety of advantages and disadvantages.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: If you&rsquo;re interested in learning more about this subject or just in reading more on it, then there&rsquo;s a couple of great papers that we can refer you to. One is by Elena Hoffstein. It&rsquo;s called <em style="">Alter Ego Trusts and Joint Partner Trusts: Tips and Traps</em>. And she presented this paper at the Fifth Annual Estates and Trusts Forum. And there&rsquo;s also a more recent paper by Tim Yuden, called &ndash; and it contains an annotated alter ego trust and that was presented at the <em style="">Taxation of Trusts and Estates:<span style="">&nbsp; </span>A Practical Approach Seminar</em> on March 3<sup>rd</sup>, 2008. So those are two great sources that we&rsquo;ve certainly referred to in putting on this subject today and we hope that they help you as well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: It&rsquo;s nice light reading, too.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Nice light reading. So I think that brings us to the end of our discussion this week. Thanks for listening and thanks for joining me,Chris.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: That was a pleasure, Natalia. I look forward to podcasting with you again soon, as always.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: Me too! So perhaps one thing we can leave you with is we&rsquo;d be happy to hear from you, so you can send us an e-mail at hull.lawyers @gmail.com. Or give us a call at our comment line being: 206-350-6636.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Alternatively, you can also visit our blog page at estatelaw.hullandhull.com where you&rsquo;ll get even more information and discussion on today&rsquo;s practice of estate law. I hope you enjoyed the show. I&rsquo;m Natalia.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Chris Graham: And I&rsquo;m Chris.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Natalia Angelini: And until next time, so long.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA">This has been <st1:city w:st="on">Hull</st1:city> on Estates with the lawyers of <st1:city w:st="on">Hull</st1:city> &amp; <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Hull</st1:city></st1:place>.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>The podcast you have been listening to has been provided as an information service.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>It is a summary of current legal issues in estates and estate planning.<span style="">&nbsp; </span>It is not legal advice and you are reminded to always talk with a legal professional regarding your specific circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA">To listen to other podcasts, or to leave a question or comment, please visit our website at <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/">www.hullandhull.com</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA">Our theme music is Upper Structure by DJ AKid <span style="">&nbsp;</span>and is courtesy of the Podsafe Music Network.<o:p></o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em style=""><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></em></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">/mem</span></p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/04/articles/podcasts-audio/alter-ego-trusts-hull-on-estates-107/</link>
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<category> PODCASTS / AUDIO</category><category>21 year rule</category><category>65</category><category>Elena Hoffstein</category><category>Estates Law Podcast</category><category>Hull on Estates</category><category>Income Tax Act</category><category>Trust</category><category>election</category><category>law podcast</category><category>older persons</category><category>residence</category><category>rollover</category><category>settlor</category><category>settlor death</category><category>snowbirds</category><category>testator</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:10:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>
<enclosure url="http://media.libsyn.com/media/kirsten/HOE_107_FINAL.mp3" length="14106584" type="audio/mpeg" />
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<item>
<title>A Trustee&apos;s Liability For Bad Investments</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>As we all know, it is not uncommon for any investor to occasionally experience a substantial decrease in the value of one of the stocks in his or her portfolio.&nbsp; But what if the investor is a trustee?&nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
<p>In light of the recent amendments to the Trustee Act which appear to embrace the modern portfolio theory, it will be interesting to see how the Court will utilize this theory to assess a trustee's investment performance.&nbsp;<a href="http://www.canlii.org///on/laws/sta/t-23/20080115/whole.html#BK38">Section 28 of the Trustee Act</a> adopts an approach that is consistent with the modern portfolio theory.&nbsp; Under this section, a trustee is insulated from liability if &ldquo;the conduct of the trustee, which led to the loss from the trust, conformed to a plan or strategy, for the investment of the trust property, comprising reasonable assessments of risk and return that a prudent investor could adopt under comparable circumstances&rdquo;. </p>
<p>Under the &ldquo;statutory legal list&rdquo; approach, which I described yesterday, a trustee was limited to investing trust assets in authorized investments.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, with the development of the prudent investor rule, trustees are provided with a broader range of investment choices, which will likely increase their responsibility in determining an acceptable standard of care.</p>
<p>Presuming that a trustee is found liable for breaching the standard of care, <a href="http://www.canlii.org///on/laws/sta/t-23/20080115/whole.html#BK39">section 29 of the Trustee Act</a> permits a court to assess &ldquo;the overall performance of the investments&rdquo; when it is assessing damages.&nbsp; Based on the language of section 29, it appears that a trustee may be allowed to offset the loss of a bad investment against the gain of a good investment.</p>
<p>The trusts and estates bar will be watching with interest to see how the judicial consideration of the prudent investor rule evolves. </p>
<p><br />
Happy Super Bowl Weekend!&nbsp; Go Patriots!</p>
<p>Rick</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/02/articles/topics/estate-trust/a-trustees-liability-for-bad-investments/</link>
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<category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Lawyer</category><category>Rick Bickhram</category><category>Trust</category><category>act</category><category>estate</category><category>hull and hull LLP</category><category>liability</category><category>section 28</category><category>section 29</category><category>toronto</category><category>trustee</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

</item>
<item>
<title>The Modern Portfolio Theory</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p align="left">In my blog yesterday, I introduced the prudent investor rule as the standard of care for trustees when investing assets that are held in a trust.&nbsp;Today, I will address how a trustee&rsquo;s investment performance may be assessed.</p>
<p align="left">Prior to July 1999, trustees were required to make investments pursuant to the &ldquo;statutory legal list&rdquo; provided for in the Trustee Act.&nbsp;This had the effect of holding trustees accountable for each particular investment, rather then the investment portfolio as a whole.&nbsp;The principle was further illuminated by the anti-netting rule, which stated that a trustee, who committed a breach of trust, was not entitled to set off a gain in one transaction against a loss in another.&nbsp;However, through recent amendments to the Trustee Act, the statutory legal list was repealed and replaced with the Prudent Investor Rule. </p>
<p>The Prudent Investor Rule reflects the modern portfolio approach to investments, the emphasis being on the prudence of the portfolio as a whole as opposed to each particular component. This theory is captured in Section 27(5) of the <a href="http://www.canlii.org///on/laws/sta/t-23/20080115/whole.html#BK35">Trustee Act</a>.&nbsp;Section 27(5) requires &ldquo;a trustee to consider &hellip; the role that each investment plays within the overall trust portfolio&rdquo;.&nbsp;Furthermore, under section 27(6) &ldquo;a trustee is required to diversify the investments of the trust property.&nbsp;It appears that under the modern portfolio approach, a trustee would not be breaching the standard of care, should he or she invest a substantial amount of trust assets into a single security.&nbsp;As described above, section 27(6) requires that the trustee consider diversifying the portfolio, which is necessary if the Prudent Investor Rule is to be followed.&nbsp;To conclude my topic, tomorrow I will consider the liability of a trustee with respect to the investment of trust assets. </p>
<p>Thanks for reading, </p>
<p>Rick</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/01/articles/topics/estate-trust/the-modern-portfolio-theory/</link>
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<category>Bickhram</category><category>Blog</category><category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Lawyer</category><category>Rick</category><category>Section 27</category><category>Trust</category><category>act</category><category>diversify</category><category>estate</category><category>investment</category><category>law</category><category>modern</category><category>portfolio</category><category>theory</category><category>toronto</category><category>trustee</category>
<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

</item>
<item>
<title>Prudent Investing</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p align="left">Not all Wills provide&nbsp;for an outright distribution to the beneficiaries.&nbsp;In some cases, the assets of an estate are held in trust over a period of time for the benefit of one or more beneficiaries, sometimes in succession.&nbsp;&nbsp;When a trustee administers a trust, he or she is entrusted to act for the benefit of others.&nbsp;As such, our&nbsp;common law and statutes impose standards that trustees must comply with when dealing with trust property. </p>
<p align="left">With the recent plummet in the stock market, I believe&nbsp;many&nbsp;trustees are considering how the stock market losses have affected&nbsp;the trust&nbsp;investments&nbsp;and what action they should take in the circumstances.&nbsp;</p>
<p align="left">Section 27 of the <em><a href="http://www.canlii.org///on/laws/sta/t-23/20080115/whole.html#BK35">Trustee Act</a></em> addresses the standard of care for trustees when investing assets held in a trust.&nbsp;Section 27(1) states, &ldquo;in investing trust property, a trustee must exercise the care, skill, diligence and judgment that a <strong>prudent investor</strong> would exercise in making investments&rdquo;.&nbsp;Section 27(2) states that &ldquo;a trustee may invest trust property in any form of property in which a <strong>prudent investor</strong> might invest&rdquo;. </p>
<p>Section 27(1) and (2) outlines the prudent investor rule.&nbsp;When investing trust assets, a trustee must comply with the prudent investor rule to protect&nbsp;himself or herself&nbsp;from liability.<span>&nbsp;&nbsp; Section 28 of the <em>Trustee Act</em>, emphasizes this point as it states that a Trustee will not be liable for losses arising from investments if the standard of the prudent investor is met.&nbsp;Nevertheless, the issue remains how does a trustee meet the &ldquo;prudent investor&rdquo; standard?&nbsp;In keeping with this theme, tomorrow I will address how a trustee&rsquo;s investment performance may be assessed.</span></p>
<p>Thanks for reading, and have a great day!</p>
<p>Rick</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/01/articles/topics/executors-and-trustees/prudent-investing/</link>
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<category>Bickhram</category><category>Executors and Trustees</category><category>Lawyer</category><category>Market</category><category>Rick</category><category>Stock</category><category>Trust</category><category>act</category><category>assets</category><category>hull</category><category>investment</category><category>investor</category><category>prudent</category><category>toronto</category><category>trustee</category>
<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

</item>
<item>
<title>The Merits of Checklists</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Checklists are wonderful things when it comes to the practice of law (list makers would argue that that is true in life as well).&nbsp;In today&rsquo;s busy practice, a checklist can ease the troubled legal mind. </p>
<p>I was looking at several estate planning information checklists earlier this week.&nbsp;It is worthwhile to highlight some issues/items that can be easily overlooked but which a thorough solicitor should ensure is on his/her checklist:</p>
<p><span>&middot;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>If you are acting for both spouses/partners, advise the clients that you cannot act for one at a later date without the other&rsquo;s knowledge;</p>
<p><span>&middot;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>Is the estate trustee to manage funds for minors and distribute monies to the guardian for care, maintenance and education of minor children.&nbsp;Who is the guardian;</p>
<p><span>&middot;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>If they can be transferred, who gets air mile/loyalty points.&nbsp;What about transferable equity in hunting/fishing lodges or sports clubs;</p>
<p><span>&middot;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>Joint Assets and the presumption of a resulting trust &ndash; is there a clear intention of ownership;</p>
<p><span>&middot;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>For foreign property, consider the necessity of executing a separate will or appointment of a local estate trustee;</p>
<p><span>&middot;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>Ensure every life interest is coupled with a remainder interest; and</p>
<p><span>&middot;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span>Ensure any charitable organization named as beneficiary is still in existence and properly described.</p>
<p>Have a great weekend and for all those skiers out there, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.</p>
<p>Justin</p>]]></description>
<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/01/articles/topics/estate-trust/the-merits-of-checklists/</link>
<guid isPermaLink="false">http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/01/articles/topics/estate-trust/the-merits-of-checklists/</guid>
<category>Estate &amp; Trust</category><category>Estate Litigation</category><category>Trust</category><category>and</category><category>estate</category><category>estate planning</category>
<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 00:10:39 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>

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<item>
<title>Karkus v. Cotroneo 2007 - Hull on Estates #93</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Listen to <a href="http://media.libsyn.com/media/kirsten/HOE_93_FINAL.mp3">Karkus v. Cotroneo 2007</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This week on </span><st1:city><st1:place><span lang="EN-CA" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hull</span></st1:place></st1:city><span lang="EN-CA" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> on Estates, Paul Trudelle and Diane Vieira discuss the case of Karkus v. Cotroneo 2007. The case addresses many of the issues that estate lawyers face on a daily basis, such as: proving or disproving gifts, slander of title and the importance of corroborative evidence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>]]><![CDATA[<p class="MsoNormal" style="BACKGROUND: #cbca98; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-outline-level: 2"><span lang="EN" style="FONT-SIZE: 17pt; COLOR: #323c3c; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-font-kerning: 18.0pt"><font face="Times New Roman">Karkus v. Cotroneo 2007 - </font><a title="Permalink for Hull on Estate and Succession Planning Podcast #20 - Claims against the Estate" href="http://www.hullandhull.com/podcast/?p=139"><span style="COLOR: #333333; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><font face="Times New Roman">Hull on Estates Podcast #93 </font></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span class="author"><span lang="EN-CA">Posted on </span></span><st1:date year="2008" day="15" month="1"><span class="author"><span lang="EN-CA">January 15<sup>th</sup>, 2008</span></span></st1:date><span class="author"><span lang="EN-CA"> by <a href="http://www.hullandhull.com/who_we_are.html">Hull &amp; Hull LLP</a></span></span><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA">Paul Trudelle: Hi and welcome to </span><st1:city><st1:place><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></st1:place></st1:city><span lang="EN-CA"> on Estates.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>You&rsquo;re listening to Episode 93 on </span><st1:date year="2008" day="15" month="1"><span lang="EN-CA">Tuesday, January 15<sup>th</sup>, 2008</span></st1:date><span lang="EN-CA">.</span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Welcome to </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"> on Estates, a series of podcasts for the Canadian legal community dealing with issues and insights surrounding estate planning in </span></em><st1:country-region><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Canada</span></em></st1:place></st1:country-region><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>Hosted by the lawyers of </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA"> &amp; </span></em><st1:city><st1:place><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hull</span></em></st1:place></st1:city><em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span lang="EN-CA">, the podcast will touch on some key considerations when planning estates and Wills.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Now, here are today&rsquo;s hosts.<o:p></o:p></span></em></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle: I&rsquo;m Paul Trudelle.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>I&rsquo;m Diana Vieira.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Hi Diane.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>How are you?</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>I&rsquo;m good.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>How are you?</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Very good.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>This is our first podcast together and our first podcast of 2008, so I wish everyone a Happy New Year. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>And why don&rsquo;t we get into what we thought we would talk about today.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Sure.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>This is an interesting case that deals with a lot of things that we deal with in our practice.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-CA">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Yeah, the case is <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Karkus and Cotroneo</em>.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>It&rsquo;s a 2007 case, </span><st1:date year="2007" day="19" month="4" ls="trans"><span lang="EN-CA">April 19, 2007</span></st1:date><span lang="EN-CA">, out of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>It&rsquo;s a decision of the Honourable Mr. Justice Sheppard.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And I thought that it would be great to talk about this case because it deals with a number of issues that we deal with day in and day out.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>It deals with issues such as gifts, proving a gift or disproving a gift, corroborative evidence required, remedies where there is a finding that there was no gift.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>It talks about resulting trusts, set-offs, slander of title, costs regarding Certificates of Pending Litigation when those are resorted to early in the litigation, and also costs of the litigation.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>So there&rsquo;s a lot in this relatively short case&hellip;11 pages&hellip;but I thought we would spend a little time going through some of those issues.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>Perhaps we can talk a bit about the background or the facts of the case.</span></font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Oh, sure.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>This is a case where the deceased died without a Will and her daughter was appointed the estate trustee.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The deceased was a business woman and near the end of her life, her business had been failing so there was a number of creditors.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And her daughter, the estate trustee, who is the plaintiff in this action, was looking through her mother&rsquo;s financial records and an entry in her bank book showed a $65,000 transfer from her mother to her mother&rsquo;s boyfriend, who&rsquo;s the defendant in this case.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Right.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And I think just before we go on, I think the fact that the deceased was in some financial difficulty in her business, is an important factor that the Court relies on later on, so that&rsquo;s important to note.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Later on, the defendant admits that he received the $65,000.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>His position is that this was a gift.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The daughter&rsquo;s position is that this represents money that the defendant was holding on behalf of his mother.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>A little more explanation to that was that the $65,000 the defendant used to purchase a property.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And then on that property, the defendant&rsquo;s name is listed alone, but the property is listed as registered as being in trust.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>That&rsquo;s right.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And I think that&rsquo;s important as well.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court deals with the resulting trust claim and looks at that factor, and we&rsquo;ll talk about that briefly in a second.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>So in essence the claim was by the estate for the return of the $65,000 and for a claim that the defendant held a property on a resulting trust and the estate had an interest in that property.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court looked at the evidence with respect to the gift and before doing that, set out the test that is required and what the estate must argue or try to establish in order to show that there was a debt or resulting trust and what the defendant needs to show in order to prove that there was in fact a gift.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>I just wanted to&hellip;another point of fact is where the $65,000 came from and when it was transferred.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The deceased had sold her house and she was moving in&hellip;she moved in with her boyfriend, who is the defendant.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And the $65,000 represents the proceeds of the estate&hellip;the proceeds of the sale of the house, excuse me.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And the money wasn&rsquo;t gifted or transferred to the defendant until six or seven months later on, which is something that the Court reflected on.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>That&rsquo;s right. They looked at the fact that the parties had moved in together, the $65,000 was used to, in part, to purchase this house and make renovations that the plaintiff wanted.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court considered the fact that the onus is on the defendant to prove, or the recipient to prove that this was a gift, there was no presumption that would work in his favour.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And in fact, the presumptions which aren&rsquo;t really referred to, would be the opposite, that there was a resulting trust or the money was owed back to the estate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And the Court found ultimately that the defendant wasn&rsquo;t successful in proving that this was a gift.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>His evidence was that the money was used&hellip;was given to him to help with the purchase of the house and to pay for expenses and that was contrary to a finding of a gift.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Just another point on that - the Court refers to the evidence required in order to establish a claim by or against an estate and dealt with the issue of corroborative evidence.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Perhaps we can talk a bit about what corroborative evidence is required and what the rule is there.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diana Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>With respect to corroborative evidence, Section 13 of the <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Evidence Act</em> requires that there be some corroboration of the material evidence.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And the onus is the civil litigation onus, but with corroboration.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And in this case, the judge and the Court had problems with the defendant and the plaintiff&rsquo;s evidence.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>He called that evidence unreliable.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Right.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>He felt that the evidence of the parties was of questionable credibility and in the absence of any corroborative evidence, he wasn&rsquo;t able to find that there was in fact a gift.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And as you mentioned, the Court referred to the burden on the defendant to prove it but said that there was also what he said was a healthy scepticism in addition to that.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Now there&rsquo;s other cases that talk about whether there&rsquo;s a higher burden on a party.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The burden is still the civil burden but the Courts will look at these claims with some scepticism.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">So the result of the defendant&rsquo;s failure to prove that it was a gift meant that money was owing to the estate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court went on to deal with the issue of whether the estate had a trust claim against the defendant.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And the Court dismissed the trust claim for a number of reasons.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The first reason, or one of the reasons was that in establishing a trust, there is case law to the effect that evidence of an illegal scheme will not be received to support a resulting trust.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And the illegal scheme that the Court referred to here was the fact that the monies were transferred by the deceased to the plaintiff probably for the purpose of avoiding creditors.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And as a result, they had&hellip;the Court had a difficult time in finding that the estate could rely on the doctrine of resulting trust in these circumstances.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>So how did the Court deal with the money owing to the estate then?</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court goes on to find that the defendant does owe money to the estate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>It&rsquo;s a debt to the estate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And he then goes on to discuss the concept of unjust enrichment.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Yeah, and the Court found that the money was owing to the estate and I guess the defendant had assets here.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court felt that it wasn&rsquo;t necessary, in fact, to rely on the concept of trust or impose a trust over the property owned by the defendant.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>A judgment, a monetary judgment, was sufficient.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>You mentioned the unjust enrichment part of it and the Court talked a bit there about when they will find unjust enrichment in order to bring in the equitable remedy.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Yes, the Court refers to the Supreme Court of Canada case, <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Peter vs. Bellow</em> and the three steps that are needed for a finding of unjust enrichment.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And all three were here in this case.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>There was an enrichment on behalf of the defendant receiving the $65,000 and a corresponding deprivation to the deceased, now the estate of the deceased, and then an absence for the reason of this enrichment.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Yeah, but having found all of those circumstances present, the Court still goes on to say that they won&rsquo;t impose the equitable remedy of a constructive trust.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court refers to that Supreme Court of Canada decision and extracts a point to the effect that a monetary award would be the appropriate remedy in many cases, and that was the case here.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And the Court concludes that a monetary award is appropriate and makes an Order that the defendant pay back the $65,000 to the estate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>However, he doesn&rsquo;t end there.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>No, it&rsquo;s&hellip;the Court goes on to find that the estate is not entitled to that full $65,000 because the defendant did provide something in the excess of $20,000 in renovations to the house.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And if the deceased&rsquo;s $65,000 was in a gift to the defendant, then the money that he contributed to the relationship was also not a gift.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></font></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>That&rsquo;s right.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>So in effect, they awarded the defendant&hellip;they made an award in favour of the defendant with respect to his Counterclaim for money that he said he spent on behalf of the plaintiff, and that reduced the recovery by the estate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>There is also the issue of a claim by the defendant for slander of title.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The defendant alleged that a Certificate of Pending Litigation put on his property was slander of title, and the Court dealt with that in very short order.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Yes, the Court found that the plaintiffs did not&hellip;didn&rsquo;t have a credible position to have had that Certificate of Pending Litigation registered.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And consequently they awarded the money that the defendant had spent on removing that Certificate, credited back to the defendant.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Paul Trudelle:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>That&rsquo;s right.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And finally, on the issue of costs of the action itself, the Court considered the fact that the plaintiff had some success, made recovery for the estate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>However, it didn&rsquo;t establish its claim for resulting trust.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>The Court also felt that the evidence of the witnesses was unreliable to a certain extent and in fact in some parts the judge said that in some parts, the evidence was fabricated.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>And as a consequence of that he ordered that there be no order as to costs, and each party had to bear its own costs.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Well, I think that&rsquo;s an interesting case on a number of grounds.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>We&rsquo;ve touched on a few of the points that the case deals with.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>I recommend the case highly to anyone dealing with those types of situations where there are gifts, where you&rsquo;re considering a claim for a resulting trust, an interesting counterclaim where you&rsquo;re faced with a claim for the return of a gift or money advanced on the basis of benefits provided to the deceased, and also considerations for dealing with Certificates of Pending Litigation and the costs that may be involved in that.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Well thank you very much, Diane.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang="EN-CA"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Diane Vieira:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Thanks Paul.<o:p></o:p></font></font></span></p>
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<link>http://estatelaw.hullandhull.com/2008/01/articles/podcasts-audio/karkus-v-cotroneo-2007-hull-on-estates-93/</link>
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<category> PODCASTS / AUDIO</category><category> PODCASTS / TRANSCRIBED</category><category>Hull on Estates</category><category>Hull on Estates</category><category>Trust</category><category>claim</category><category>corroboration</category><category>deprivation</category><category>evidence</category><category>evidence act</category><category>gifts</category><category>resulting trusts</category><category>section 13</category><category>unjust enrichment</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:00:30 -0500</pubDate>
<author>nonley@hullandhull.com (Hull &amp; Hull LLP)</author>
<enclosure url="http://media.libsyn.com/media/kirsten/HOE_93_FINAL.mp3" length="12705541" type="audio/mpeg" />
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<title>More on Recovering &quot;Gifts&quot;</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Yesterday, I blogged on the case of <em><a href="http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2007/2007canlii12893/2007canlii12893.html ">Gubo Estate v. Cotroneo</a></em>.&nbsp;There, the estate was granted judgment against the Defendant for the recovery of an alleged &ldquo;gift&rdquo; that the court determined was unsubstantiated, and therefore repayable.</p>
<p>Interestingly, the judgment was not for the full amount of the gift.&nbsp;The Defendant alleged that he had paid out approximately $22,500 on behalf of the deceased, and that this amounted to a debt in his favour.&nbsp;The Court accepted this, without much discussion, and reduced the amount repayable to the Estate by $22,500.</p>
<p>The Court heard from the Defendant that the deceased had made a gift of the funds to him, and that the Defendant had made various expenditures on behalf of the deceased.&nbsp;The Court did not accept that the transfer from the deceased to the Defendant was a gift.&nbsp;However, the flip side of this was that the expenditures by the Defendant for the deceased were not gifts, either: hence, the reduction of the judgment in favour of the Estate